Can pickup wire be reused?

[Danelectron]

I'm interested in trying to wind some pickups and am wondering; For research(trial and error) can new pickup wire be wound and unwound to try different methods? I imagine there is some stretch that will affect the final result. I did some searching, but any key word brought up myriads of totally unrelated info, although it was some good info. Thanks, Dan

[copperheadroads]

I have re spooled/recycle pickups before, When trying to achieve a certain tone .....R & D
But i have only tried it without potting the pickup
Tension is something to play with to prevent stretching ,my first attempt on a 6.2k strat pickup around 8300 turns ,if my memory is correct. when i rewound the pickup to the same spec's using the wire over again,the 6.2 k pickup @ 8300 turns was now 6.5k & i had about 300 turns of wire left on the spool .So it does stretch , but this can be achieved without much stretching & little increase in DCR , I'm sure its not good for the wire & it would shorten the life of a
works for R & D

[big_teee]

Yes you can, but its time consuming and can be frustrating.
You can get the Poly wire pretty reasonable, I would get the cheapest thing I could find to start with.
I recommend the 42 gauge. The 43 and 44 sure breaks easier.
The 42 Heavy Formvar or 42 HPN Poly is the easiest to wind and the hardest to break.
The most frustrating wire to wind is the PE because its so dark and hard to see.
You need real good lighting to wind it.
Later,
Terry

[peskywinnets]

I'm so tightfisted that if I drop 5p whilst at the top of the ladder, I get down the ladder so fast that the 5p hits me on the top of
my head (I turn the grill off while turning over hamburgers :-) etc ....but I draw the line at reusing pickup wire.

[Mark Hammer]

I've done it, in a pinch when someone needed a pickup rewound ASAP and I had no other wire, but it is not something I'd recommend. Although I don't personally use them, there are all manner of devices for mechanically winding coils. I know of no devices for mechanically unwinding them, making it an arduous and risky task.

I may well be cheaper than peskywinnets, and be able to dash over from where I'm standing to snatch the 5p before he gets to it, but here I have to agree with him!

[big_teee]

I've done it, but I agree, Got too many sources to get wire.
My time is more valuable than the money you save.
I can get SPN for $18 a lb. It will have to get a lot higher than that before I reuse wire.
However if you haven't tried it and it looks feasible to you, go for it.

Later,
Terry

[Danelectron]

I should have priced wire before I posted. It's pretty reasonable so I won't worry about that. I was thinking I will go through a lot before I even have a clue about characteristics. I am going to make a winder out of an old singer that I got at a yard sale for 10 bucks. I definately will reuse whatever wire it takes to fine tune this. I've got some books ordered so it will be a while before I get going.

peskywinnets, I hear ya. I've been criticized for my basement full of cardboard boxes that I can't throw out cause I know I will eventually send something out in them. I bet I could make Kwai Chang Caine flinch catching that nail before it moved a foot.

Mark Hammer, You don't use a winder of any sort?

Thanks for your attention, Dan

[copperheadroads]

My big coffiee can of old discarded magnet wire is starting to overflow . it might be worth $5 or less at the scrap dealer lol

[Mark Hammer]

Mark Hammer, You don't use a winder of any sort?

I use an old-fashioned hand-drill clamped in a bench vise, and secure the coilform/bobbin into the chuck. I get about 4.25 turns of the coil per crank of the handle, and when I'm on a roll, I can get about 80 cranks per minute, which is 340 turns a minute, or 22.4 minutes to wind a standard Strat coil (though a half-hour, more realistically, since I don't have a counter other putting a checkmark on a page after every couple of hundred cranks). I guide the wire by hand and plunk the spool on the floor against a dark background, so that when I look down at the spinning coil against the dark background, it is easy to see the wire and guide it. When I'm done, all the things I use can go back to their individual receptacles, without requiring benchspace.

If I was in business, or had any intention of winding more than a couple of pickups a year, I'd probably opt for something less manual. But I can afford to waste a couple hours in the space of a year to hand-wind a couple of PUs, where folks who do this as their livelihood can not. If I was in business, I'd aim for something that provided more consistency, but I have no particular sonic objectives. Every single one is an experiment, and I'm generally happy to live with the result and figure out what it can do for me, until such time as I decide I don't like it and try something different. So, again, mostly manual winding works fine for me, though I certainly won't tout it as superior in any way.

[big_teee]

I use an old-fashioned hand-drill clamped in a bench vise, and secure the coilform/bobbin into the chuck. I get about 4.25 turns of the coil per crank of the handle, and when I'm on a roll, I can get about 80 cranks per minute, which is 340 turns a minute, or 22.4 minutes to wind a standard Strat coil (though a half-hour, more realistically, since I don't have a counter other putting a checkmark on a page after every couple of hundred cranks). I guide the wire by hand and plunk the spool on the floor against a dark background, so that when I look down at the spinning coil against the dark background, it is easy to see the wire and guide it. When I'm done, all the things I use can go back to their individual receptacles, without requiring benchspace.

If I was in business, or had any intention of winding more than a couple of pickups a year, I'd probably opt for something less manual. But I can afford to waste a couple hours in the space of a year to hand-wind a couple of PUs, where folks who do this as their livelihood can not. If I was in business, I'd aim for something that provided more consistency, but I have no particular sonic objectives. Every single one is an experiment, and I'm generally happy to live with the result and figure out what it can do for me, until such time as I decide I don't like it and try something different. So, again, mostly manual winding works fine for me, though I certainly won't tout it as superior in any way.

I consider myself as a primitive winder, I use a Large Cordless Drill that I put in a Jig I made for it.
I have a bolt threaded in a bar that I tighten up till it turns the drill to desired speed.
I made a wire guide device that I adjust for how wide the bobbin is.
I started doing it this way a couple of years ago just as an experiment.
I'm still making pickups the same way.
I started this strictly as a hobby, and I told myself if I really get to selling pickups I would get some real winding eqpt.
Everyone around here that has tried my pickups like them, I am getting busier.
This next year I'm going to start trying to put a real winder together.
The surprising thing is Like Mark, I've gotten pretty good at making pickups with practcally no real winding tools.
I don't recommend the way I do it, and I see a better mouse trap coming in the future.
Later,
Terry

[Danelectron]

So, again, mostly manual winding works fine for me, though I certainly won't tout it as superior in any way.

Mark, I had to ask because I was picturing a hand over hand technique that would inevitably result in a bunch of kinks (and very labor intensive). You're using a more manual technique than most, but still spinning the bobbin. I probably won't be doing a lot of pickups, but I became curious when I saw a sewing machine winder and since I have a sewing machine that I can sacrifice...

I have a strat that I put 2 Dimarzio stacks and 1 Seymour Duncan (stack) in and was a bit disappointed in the difference in output. There is an obvious difference in their interpretations of output. I like all 3 of these, they just don't go together well in this guitar. I am hoping to develope a better understanding of output characteristics and maybe end up with some cool pickups in the end.

Terry, One good thing I see is that a person can get started at this without spending a ton of cash up front. I may spend more in the long run than just picking out a different SD, but the education will be worth it.


Thanks guys, Dan

[big_teee]

I had a similar experience.
I was buying retail priced pickups and never really thought they sounded as good as I thought they should.
So I started reading and searching and decided that I could probably make a humbucker.
So I ordered a couple of StewMac kits and a half pound of wire.
I had a lot of breaks and splices that first humbucker, but it worked in the end.
It sounded good, not great, but good enough to get me hooked.
The fancy winder is the end result that we all shoot for, but there is many many other things in winding that is just as important.
I spent my whole adult life in electronics, so I had a good back ground to start from.
Good Luck,
Terry

[Danelectron]

Experience is the best teacher.

I wound my first two coils this weekend. I set up a winder with the motor out of an my old singer and used the thread bobbin winder for the pickup bobbin winder. I mounted the motor and bobbin winder on a piece of wood from an old Whiritzer I've been recommissioning one piece at a time. It was from the side and is shaped like an auto harp. It works great. I'm in the process of setting up a counter, but couldn't wait to start so I just did these by resistance measurement. One was 3.982 and the other was 4.1. The wire broke about six times on the first one, which I soldered and touched up with some enamel paint. HD black The other only broke once so the learning curve shortened up pretty quickly. It is real easy to break though. I think to try to unwind a pickup by hand would take a week and I don't know if the wire would be in very good condition to reuse other than in a pinch.

Question or two: If one coil had more turns than the other, but the same resistance how does this affect the function? I found as I went along on the second coil I could feel the tension on the wire in my fingers. On the first one , no idea. I imagine the second has more tension so probably more wraps.

How about loose wraps or kinks(I had a couple that buried rather easily)?

I potted these with paraffin and beezwax this morning. I have a hotplate that holds temp extremely well and I melted the wax thoroughly then lowered the temp to 145. I found that approaching 145 degrees the wax began to coagulate and turn opaque. It did seem to penetrate, but I can't help wonder how well. What is the upper end of the range that a bobbin can be heated without damage or contorting?

I have to say this has been fun so far. I will probably finish putting it together tomorrow.

[big_teee]

Experience is the best teacher.

I wound my first two coils this weekend. I set up a winder with the motor out of an my old singer and used the thread bobbin winder for the pickup bobbin winder. I mounted the motor and bobbin winder on a piece of wood from an old Whiritzer I've been recommissioning one piece at a time. It was from the side and is shaped like an auto harp. It works great. I'm in the process of setting up a counter, but couldn't wait to start so I just did these by resistance measurement. One was 3.982 and the other was 4.1. The wire broke about six times on the first one, which I soldered and touched up with some enamel paint. HD black The other only broke once so the learning curve shortened up pretty quickly. It is real easy to break though. I think to try to unwind a pickup by hand would take a week and I don't know if the wire would be in very good condition to reuse other than in a pinch.

Question or two: If one coil had more turns than the other, but the same resistance how does this affect the function? I found as I went along on the second coil I could feel the tension on the wire in my fingers. On the first one , no idea. I imagine the second has more tension so probably more wraps.

How about loose wraps or kinks(I had a couple that buried rather easily)?

I potted these with paraffin and beezwax this morning. I have a hotplate that holds temp extremely well and I melted the wax thoroughly then lowered the temp to 145. I found that approaching 145 degrees the wax began to coagulate and turn opaque. It did seem to penetrate, but I can't help wonder how well. What is the upper end of the range that a bobbin can be heated without damage or contorting?

I have to say this has been fun so far. I will probably finish putting it together tomorrow.

Sounds like your starting to get the hang of it.
You didn't say what gauge wire and what pickup type.
Sounds like a humbucker with 42 gauge wire.
As to the wire breaking make sure no sharp edges on the spool.
If the wire is loose on the bobbin, try flipping the Wire spool over.
Most guys put it on the floor, I like it behind me about 4 feet fed off the end.
There is all kind of ways to put tension on the wire.
I feed it through finger and thumb of my right hand.
Wax temp. I have used it as low as 135f and as high as 155f.
for plastic bobbins I would keep it below 150.
I pot my Forbon single coils 10-15 minutes.
Sometimes I pot humbuckers, sometimes I don't.
I've found IMO Humbuckers well taped, without covers, have tolerable Microphonics.
And left un-taped have IMO much better Harmonics.
I shake the bobbin a few times in that time frame to check for bubbles.
10-15 minutes all bubbles should be gone.
David K. mentioned making a wire form to put in the bottom of wax to keep it right off the bottom so not on a heating element.
That sounds like a great idea.
Others here with the larger operations use vacuum pots to impregnate the bobbin with wax.
Also another thing is to preheat the pickup before putting it in the wax.
Not sure what kind of wax your using and some requires more temp to melt.
I use Canning Jar wax, I get it at the Grocery store.
The brand I have is made by Ball canning Co.
I thin my wax with Pure Paraffin wax Oil.
Most everyone else uses 15% bees wax.
I don't have a ready supply of bees wax.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck,
Terry

[Danelectron]

Terry, Yes it is a humbucker with 42 gauge wire. I finished putting it together this morning. It really came out nice. I hope the sound doesn't spoil the experience. The coils actually wound up pretty snug. I just had one or two wraps that were loose, but I was able to bury. I started without a wire guide and I think the wire hung up on the mount, slipped off and as fast as it was winding, left a little slack. I fashioned a guide with a piece of welding rod that I knocked the flux off and twisted into a PAF wire guide. The final DCR was 8.1xxk. I think I will use try this at the bridge position and wind the neck pickup with a bit lower resistance. I like the idea of having the spool behind feeding horizontally. I had it on the floor between my feet and used my left hand as a guide and ran it through my right thumb and forefinger. I think the angle may have helped me feel the tension, but it did cause a bit of drag. I did read the post about putting the little rack in the wax pot to help suspend the pickups off the bottom. I did this on my kitchen counter and suspended the pickups from the upper cabinet handle with a piece of wire. I left them in the wax for almost 15 minutes. I shook them occasionally until the bubble were gone. Then I accidentally pulled off the finish lead on one so had to open it up and resolder it on. The 42 gauge wire was molded down nicely when I had to peel a bit back to repair it. I didn't preheat it and the wax did solidify on the surface until it heated up to the ambient. I used paraffin and beezwax I had left over from years ago from a batiking project(don't ask). I'm starting the other pickup tonight, then I'll probably hold off til I get the counter set up. Thanks for the feedback, Dan