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  • Ric 4001 treble pickup rewind?

    hello...

    One of my customers brought in a 1971? Rick 4001 bass with a dead treble pickup. Does anyone know what wire gauge and turn count was stock for this year?

    Thank you,
    Ken
    www.angeltone.com

  • #2
    Hi Ken. A 1971 4001 bass? You got me curious: is it a 21 fretter? Can you let me know the serial number on the jackplate, or the date code on the back of the potentiometer casings?
    As to the specs for the treble pickup on it, I'm not clear on the number of turns, only on the ohm rating - approx. 6.5 K - and the wire gauge - #44.

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    • #3
      I have two '72 4001's which had the "hi gain" pickups. One of these is the same specs as a '71.. split bridge, checker binding, full width inlays, etc.

      They measure about 7.4K ~ 8K. These are the older hi gains.. the new ones are about 11K. And yes, 44 gauge wire.
      It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


      http://coneyislandguitars.com
      www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

      Comment


      • #4
        I had a '73 4001 with a dead bridge pickup. TVJones rewound it for me about 10 years ago and it was around 9k with 44 gauge, and sounded great. I would say 44 gauge poly or solderon single build and not formvar would be the correct choice.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ken View Post
          ... 1971? Rick 4001 bass with a dead treble pickup.
          Can you get the bobbin dimensions? Distance between bobbin flats,
          outside length and width of the magnets are all it takes.

          -drh
          He who moderates least moderates best.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hold on.

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            • #7
              Length: 2 15/16"; width: 1 1/16"; clearance between top and bottom flatwork: roughly 3/8".

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DrStrangelove View Post
                Can you get the bobbin dimensions? Distance between bobbin flats, outside length and width of the magnets are all it takes.
                They don't have magnets for poles... just four cap head bolts, and a big rubber magnet underneath.

                The whole thing is lacquered too. I have two at home... one is broken.
                It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


                http://coneyislandguitars.com
                www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                Comment


                • #9
                  "Cap head bolts"? You mean steel rivets (type U drive screws), or flat slot head screws? And "lacquered"? You mean sprayed shiny black? From your description - large rubberized magnet - what you have is a "final version" high gain pickup, probably from 1973/1974. Can you post a picture?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Instigator View Post
                    "Cap head bolts"? You mean steel rivets (type U drive screws), or flat slot head screws? And "lacquered"? You mean sprayed shiny black? From your description - large rubberized magnet - what you have is a "final version" high gain pickup, probably from 1973/1974. Can you post a picture?
                    Yeah rivets. They aren't flat head. One of them might have slots, but it's been a while since I had them in my hands. Both my basses are from '72. Both had Toaster neck pickups (with long magnets) and a walnut stripe down the middle. One has the split bridge and checkered binding and wide markers. They both have the wavy art deco Grover tuners. The other bass is a transition bass.. no checkered binding, the newer bridge and pickup surround, smaller markers. Both basses had an aluminum bridge pickup mount.

                    They are sprayed shiny black, but the coil is lacquered. You can't unwind it... I tried! That's why one is broken...

                    I'll dig them up and take some pictures... as soon as I figure out where the pickups are!

                    Here are the basses. The older style bass is on the left. No, that's not the factory color! The transition bass has a nice curly neck. The body is wider too. I need to restore these soon!
                    Attached Files
                    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


                    http://coneyislandguitars.com
                    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Instigator View Post
                      Length: 2 15/16"; width: 1 1/16"; clearance between top and bottom flatwork: roughly 3/8".

                      Sorry. I didn't speak clearly.

                      By length and width, I meant the bobbin core size if it had no windings on it.

                      If we know the bobbin size, wire gauge and DC resistance, we can make a fair estimate on the number of windings.

                      If I had to blindly guess on an old style 60's-early 70's Rick pickup, I'd say 4000-5000 winds of #44.

                      -drh
                      He who moderates least moderates best.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Interesting indeed. However, this so-called "transition" bass can't possibly be a 1972. It's got to be a mid-1973. Check the two letters on the jackplate. "ME"? "MF"? "MG"? "MH"? (May/June/July/August 1973)
                        "Sprayed shiny black with a lacquered coil"? Sounds too irregular to be a totally stock Rick pickup. I'm curious to see some pics. Thanks.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Instigator View Post
                          Interesting indeed. However, this so-called "transition" bass can't possibly be a 1972. It's got to be a mid-1973. Check the two letters on the jackplate. "ME"? "MF"? "MG"? "MH"? (May/June/July/August 1973)
                          "Sprayed shiny black with a lacquered coil"? Sounds too irregular to be a totally stock Rick pickup. I'm curious to see some pics. Thanks.
                          My bad.. they are both '73's.. MC (March) for the split bridge model, and MH (August) for the transition bass. I bought the transition bass new. I had to have it ordered because it was mapleglo. So I actually got to unwrap it from the packing box and brown paper! That was exciting. The features on the split bridge model don't seem to add up to '73, so that was obviously an older bass that got assembled later at the factory. It's been a while since I looked at these basses!

                          I don't recall getting my first Ric in '73... I started high school in '72, and the bass was a gift from my folks, but that's what the serial number says! The split bridge was Mapleglo when I got it from the original owner. All the parts were stock. I painted it burgundy flake in the 80's.

                          They both had long magnet toasters.

                          OK, here's the bridge pickup from the split bridge/checkerboard bass. I have no idea where the other pickup is. This is the one I remember with slotted head poles. It's made from some kind of greenish phenolic looking plastic (PC board) and was sprayed black. You can see where the paint has chipped. I unscrewed it from the aluminum mounting plate to show the bottom. This pickup is taped, but the other bass was lacquered, since I couldn't unwind it. This pickup is also dead, but it used to work.

                          Boy, that aluminum plate is home made looking! There's not a whole bunch of wire on this. I found my notes from the time... the bridge was 8.2K and the neck toaster was 8.5K. So these are obviously the first high gains.

                          One thing I always thought was cool about Rickenbacker is that every now and then you find something odd. Right before I got my bass, a guy in high school brought in his new 4001. It was burgundyglo, toaster, and checkerboard... but here's the freaky part. The checks were not squares, but triangles! John Hall told me this is impossible, but we all saw it, and I lusted after Ricks enough to know this was different! Another time I saw a fretless in the window of Manny's Music in NYC with oval fingerboard inlays. The fingerboard looked like tulipwood (light orange colored) just like my transition bass, instead of the usual bubinga. It could have been custom, but it still had the tags on it.
                          Attached Files
                          It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


                          http://coneyislandguitars.com
                          www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hey, thanks, David.
                            Hmm... That pickup looks original, all right.
                            As for the 4001 it came off of, it is a March '73 indeed, not an older bass assembled later.
                            The treble pickup on the August '73 4001 has got to be a "final version" high gain with steel rivets for polepieces. Maybe someone dipped it in lacquer somewhere along the line. IIRC, only the earliest 4001 bridge high gain pickups (1969, 1970) were potted in lacquer and left unsprayed.
                            A binding with triangles instead of squares? That particular bass was either a definite one-off or a fake. Oval fingerboard inlays? Surely a mod.
                            Do you intend to rewind the "dead" '73 high gain pickup?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Instigator View Post
                              Hey, thanks, David.
                              Hmm... That pickup looks original, all right.
                              As for the 4001 it came off of, it is a March '73 indeed, not an older bass assembled later.
                              Yeah I guess sometime in mid '73 the features changed, i.e., no checked binding, and the new bridge/tail assembly. I called the August bass a transition bass since it still had the toaster and the wavy Grovers.

                              Originally posted by Instigator View Post
                              The treble pickup on the August '73 4001 has got to be a "final version" high gain with steel rivets for polepieces. Maybe someone dipped it in lacquer somewhere along the line. IIRC, only the earliest 4001 bridge high gain pickups (1969, 1970) were potted in lacquer and left unsprayed.
                              It did indeed have the rivet poles, with no slots like this one. Otherwise they looked very much alike. As I mentioned when I tried to unwind the pickup it was a solid mass of wire... I broke it trying to unwind it. I had wanted to wind more wire on it.. with the bass bypass cap it didn't put out a whole lot of sound!

                              Originally posted by Instigator View Post
                              A binding with triangles instead of squares? That particular bass was either a definite one-off or a fake. Oval fingerboard inlays? Surely a mod.
                              I don't think it was a fake... it was from a very reputable (and famous) music store. I assume it was a one off... they probably had a sample of some other purfling.

                              I can see the other bass being a mod. It was very nice work.

                              Originally posted by Instigator View Post
                              Do you intend to rewind the "dead" '73 high gain pickup?
                              I didn't know it was dead until I checked it last night. I had long replaced the pickups on both basses. I love the Ric sound, but needed more versatility at the time. You can see that the March bass had a Gibson sidewinder at the neck!

                              But now I want to restore that bass to as close to stock as possible. I no longer have the toasters... I gave them to a buddy who put them in a Rick styled guitar he built. So I guess I'll rewind this pickup and get a new toaster. I'm also missing the bridge on that bass.. I have the tailpiece. I also have the newer bridge/tail assembly. I think the bridge is at the same friends house.

                              I'm also going to refinish it jetglo! I always wanted a black 4001...

                              (me with the August bass and the band Dreamer in 1977. Notice extra knobs and switches! It also has a DiMarzio model P in the middle.)
                              Attached Files
                              It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


                              http://coneyislandguitars.com
                              www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                              Comment

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