Does anyone ever

[madialex]

Use 42 AWG wire on tele neck pickups or is it a carnal sin? I like the tone and output I can get with 42. The DC is naturally lower but the output is what I want as well as the tone. Opinions, ideas???

[DrStrangelove]

There is no heresy.

If you like it, it's good for you personally.

If someone else likes it, they're a potential client,
and that's good for you professionally.

-drh

[kevinT]

if it sounds better...

Why not....Fender used to wind early Tele bridge pickups with 43 and switched to 42 AWG in the early 50s.

[Zhangliqun]

It won't be exactly the same but there's no harm in trying. I've been thinking of just trying one with 42 -- you never know, it might sound better.

[Spence]

Fender did switch to 42 AWG for a very short period for Tele neck pickups. It may be that they didn't like the change and you'll see neck pickups like that in the Blackguard Book metering out at around 5.5 K.

Suck it and see.

[OFM]

There's no reason to avoid trying... I experiment a lot with 42 and 43 in singlecoil and humbucker windings...

Personally, I also prefer the tones I get with AWG42 in the singlecoils I wind...

[ken]

I like 42 too, but not so much for Tele rhythm. I find it makes a relatively weak pickup, not so easy to use when you're playing with both the pickups on.

Fender used 43 because the rhythm pickup needs all the help it can get, and 43 is probably the only way to achieve anywhere close to volume balance with the lead pickup.

Me, I'm wondering what 44 would sound like there myself.

If it sounds good... do it.
ken

[madialex]

I like 42 too, but not so much for Tele rhythm. I find it makes a relatively weak pickup, not so easy to use when you're playing with both the pickups on.

Fender used 43 because the rhythm pickup needs all the help it can get, and 43 is probably the only way to achieve anywhere close to volume balance with the lead pickup.

Me, I'm wondering what 44 would sound like there myself.

If it sounds good... do it.
ken

Hi Ken, I wound one yesterday and I love it. It is only about 5K but I actually had to raise the bridge pickup to match the output. It has kind of a tele/stratty tone to it, very clear and open.

But I am concerned about the whole string catching the bobbin thing. I am really hoping the cut cover may do the trick, we'll see today I guess.

[Spence]

I like 42 too, but not so much for Tele rhythm. I find it makes a relatively weak pickup, not so easy to use when you're playing with both the pickups on.

Fender used 43 because the rhythm pickup needs all the help it can get, and 43 is probably the only way to achieve anywhere close to volume balance with the lead pickup.

Me, I'm wondering what 44 would sound like there myself.

If it sounds good... do it.
ken

I can get 6 K Ohms DCR with 42 AWG Heavy Formvar on a tele neck pickup no problem. They sound very stratty then.

[kevinT]

Use 42 AWG wire on tele neck pickups or is it a carnal sin? I like the tone and output I can get with 42. The DC is naturally lower but the output is what I want as well as the tone. Opinions, ideas???

This raises a good point...and introduces, IMO, a bigger issue...and that is...

In designing a specific pickup model, do you design by spec or design by tone?

Hypothetically, let's say that you are creating a PAF clone for the bridge position, and you're following PAF specs to the T but the pickup sounds shitty. You've done a number of things within spec to tweek the formula to improve the tone but to no avail.

You try 44 AWG SPN and KAPOW!!!!...the perfect PAF tone hits you in the face like a ton of bricks.

My question is...do you market it as a true PAF replica because of the tone, or not? ...even though you have altered the PAF specs?

[Spence]

Hypothetically, let's say that you are creating a PAF clone for the bridge position, and you're following PAF specs to the T but the pickup sounds shitty. You've done a number of things within spec to tweek the formula to improve the tone but to no avail.

You try 44 AWG SPN and KAPOW!!!!...the perfect PAF tone hits you in the face like a ton of bricks.

My question is...do you market it as a true PAF replica because of the tone, or not? ...even though you have altered the PAF specs?

Creating a PAF clone to the spec? Who's idea of a PAF spec?
My recommendation is simply to find a really sweet PAF and copy that.
You know, the tragic thing is that one day some asshole will ring up asking if you can replicate a PAF tone and offer to let you copy his genuine GFS PAF.

When that day comes I'm going to quietly slip into the night having given up trying to educate people.

[madialex]

This raises a good point...and introduces, IMO, a bigger issue...and that is...

In designing a specific pickup model, do you design by spec or design by tone?

Hypothetically, let's say that you are creating a PAF clone for the bridge position, and you're following PAF specs to the T but the pickup sounds shitty. You've done a number of things within spec to tweek the formula to improve the tone but to no avail.

You try 44 AWG SPN and KAPOW!!!!...the perfect PAF tone hits you in the face like a ton of bricks.

My question is...do you market it as a true PAF replica because of the tone, or not? ...even though you have altered the PAF specs?

I have wrestled with this very same thing forever it seems. The general public has had the DCR thrown at them so much that i think it would be hard to sell a pickup with whatever specs you think sound the best. They take in so much mis information by people who think they know what they are talking about but dont really know shit. Mostly forum jockies who have nothing better to do than read crap from the net and then spew it as gospel on some forum somewhere. People generally dont know better and if they remotely sound like they know something others will beleive it.... I say do it and see what happens. I am going to do that with my stuff when I get started up again, I am going to completely rethink the way I do things. Hell aint it about the tone anyway?? I never heard the DCR sound good did you? But The wind and wire used, now thats where the tone is....

[madialex]

Hypothetically, let's say that you are creating a PAF clone for the bridge position, and you're following PAF specs to the T but the pickup sounds shitty. You've done a number of things within spec to tweek the formula to improve the tone but to no avail.

You try 44 AWG SPN and KAPOW!!!!...the perfect PAF tone hits you in the face like a ton of bricks.

My question is...do you market it as a true PAF replica because of the tone, or not? ...even though you have altered the PAF specs?

Creating a PAF clone to the spec? Who's idea of a PAF spec?
My recommendation is simply to find a really sweet PAF and copy that.
You know, the tragic thing is that one day some asshole will ring up asking if you can replicate a PAF tone and offer to let you copy his genuine GFS PAF.

When that day comes I'm going to quietly slip into the night having given up trying to educate people.

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!!!

Go over to the TDPRI, they think GFS is the shiznit. I guess when you have nothing but stock stuff and you go with a GFS on a recomendation from other people who have only tried them and nothing else thats what happens. The art of making a pickup and creating unique tone is simply going out the window because of people like that.

[Zhangliqun]

There's one fairly well known guy who makes a humbucker set called Fillmores after Duane. I want to say Wagner but the name just flew out of my head just before I wrote this so I'm not sure.

Anyway, his bridge is +/-13k and neck is +/-10k and his site says don't let the DCR specs fool you. I strongly suspect he is using 43 wire, because 43 at those specs is by my calculations roughly equivalent to about 9.5k and 8k in 42 wire, pretty much optimum overwound PAF range for the creamy Duane tone. (At least all that was the case last time I was at his site.)

He's gotten a lot of good reviews for them and by having these specs on his site he's being pretty much up front that the construction is not VC (vintage correct). I'm looking at doing something similar so I will be up front about that as well. You really don't have a choice since enough customers have multi-meters that you couldn't get away with it anyway, even if you wanted to.

[madialex]

There's one fairly well known guy who makes a humbucker set called Fillmores after Duane. I want to say Wagner but the name just flew out of my head just before I wrote this so I'm not sure.

Anyway, his bridge is +/-13k and neck is +/-10k and his site says don't let the DCR specs fool you. I strongly suspect he is using 43 wire, because 43 at those specs is by my calculations roughly equivalent to about 9.5k and 8k in 42 wire, pretty much optimum overwound PAF range for the creamy Duane tone. (At least all that was the case last time I was at his site.)

He's gotten a lot of good reviews for them and by having these specs on his site he's being pretty much up front that the construction is not VC (vintage correct). I'm looking at doing something similar so I will be up front about that as well. You really don't have a choice since enough customers have multi-meters that you couldn't get away with it anyway, even if you wanted to.

You are correct, it is Jim Wagner, and he winds a very nice pickup and is a heck of a nice guy to boot. I'm not real crazy about some of his self righteous
comments on his website but other than that he winds a great pickup.

I wondered about the 43 wire as well. If we all got together we could change some of the hype about pickups etc...

I say use whatever wire you want if you get great tone then all the better. This may even kick some of the hard to get stuff or the prices of wire etc.. in the balls....