Zexcoil pickups

[David Schwab]

Ad just to annoy Possum....

[freefrog]

Nice reading, now that the site is no more censored as "dangerous" for my computer...
Moment of solitary nostalgia: Zexcoil's somehow remind me of some MC2 pickups built in my country since the 80's (Micros guitare | Customisation micros et micros sur mesure | Micros guitare MC2 : the "P.L.O" models include one coil per string, although they are not noise cancelling stuff). Sigh!

A real PAF and most commercial humbuckers in a frequency sweep look nearly identical but sound nothing like eachother.

As a matter of fact, I’ve recently tested two PU’s whose resonant frequencies were incredibly identical on my screen but whose tones were worlds apart : the first one sounded like the second one with a tone control on 3/10.
There's something going on with the harmonics that a simple resonant frequency test with a sweeping signal just can't capture, apparently / AFAIK (you had explained it to me in a PM, Dave, and you were right IMHO/IME).

Still I've made strat sets for Kinman owners who got tired of the lack of single coil sparkle they have.

It’s no more the case or at least it's a lot less the case with the last Kinman designs, FWIW.

Spectrographs are hard to read. It is almost better for the consumer to go by the Bass/Middle/Treble tone chart. For instance, the Duncan JB (great pickup) is almost always described as a "very bright" pickup. Stating that its resonant frequency is barely over 1 kHz doesn't help someone who is looking for a pickup that is brighter than the DiMarzio Tone Zone (also a great pickup) at 1.3kHz. The player will experience the JB as brighter. (I sure do feel free to divulge other winders secrets, don't I? :-/ ) Those figures are under playing condition load BTW.

If my memory serves me, the brightness of a Duncan JB can be partly seen on a screen, nevertheless, under the shape of a secondary resonant peak in the 10khz range - of course, saying it, I voluntarily forget that the “dual resonance” thing has been patented by… "Dee Mart the O". LOL!

[jmaf]

As long as we are talking about someone playing a lot of notes....

On that video both Jimi and Noel apparently are using same model Dual Showman. Noel is plugged straight into the normal channel, Jimi has a rendezvous with his pedalboard then going back to normal channel as well. Jimi's vibrato is not coming from the amp.

On the John McLaughlin performance, it doesn't feel like he's there, on stage....it's like he's thinking of bills to pay or something, not to demote the master in any way.

[David Schwab]

On that video both Jimi and Noel apparently are using same model Dual Showman. Noel is plugged straight into the normal channel, Jimi has a rendezvous with his pedalboard then going back to normal channel as well. Jimi's vibrato is not coming from the amp.

That's Billy Cox and Buddy Miles (Band of Gypsys) playing with Jimi.

Jimi is probably using the Uni-Vibe for Vibrato. He always had that along with his usual Wah, Octavia, Fuzz Face and Roger Mayer fuzzes.

On the John McLaughlin performance, it doesn't feel like he's there, on stage....it's like he's thinking of bills to pay or something, not to demote the master in any way.

I've seen John play a bunch of times, and that's often how he looks. Check out this clip of Mahavishu from 1972; he's pacing around the stage looking aloof while playing the beginning of Awakening.

That whole band was amazing, with the exception of Rick Laird. I always felt they needed someone with better chops on bass.

Scott, so about hijacking the thread... but you know how it gets here!

[jmaf]

That bass player on the video above is not Billy Cox.

That's an insane performance there by Mahavishu, thanks for sharing that.

[David Schwab]

That bass player on the video above is not Billy Cox.

Well it's not Noel Redding. Turns out it's Bob Arthur. It looked more like Cox, since it was a big guy with dark hair, and not some skinny english dude. But I didn't watch the whole thing.

Reading the title a little more we see that what we are hearing, is not what we are seeing.

The description says:

Jan 1, 1970 Filmore East with Billy Cox on Bass and Buddy Miles on Drums/backing Vocals.

However, he goes on to say that there is no video footage of that, so he dubbed the audio on top of the 1969 New Port Jazz Festival show.

That can be seen here:

[jmaf]

Good find there on the real footage of that. I noticed on the first video you posted the notes seemed out of sync and sometimes he'd have his hand way up in the scale but lower notes would come out, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, it's Jimi so....anything was possible. But you solved the mystery, that's neither Noel Redding(seemed fat to me, but I wasn't there back in 69) and neither Billy Cox(white, with a mustache, not Cox).

Edit, by the way we've hijacked the thread and I apologize for that. End of Dual Showman diversion here.

[MrCandy]

If my memory serves me, the brightness of a Duncan JB can be partly seen on a screen, nevertheless, under the shape of a secondary resonant peak in the 10khz range - of course, saying it, I voluntarily forget that the “dual resonance” thing has been patented by… "Dee Mart the O". LOL!

freefrog -SD does not make a double resonance pickups, Dimarzio no patent on the double resonance, they are the use of wires of different calibers in humbakers.
SD pickups have such diagrams can be seen when they are using a copper foil around the coils.
But in fact, if we measure the coils individually, we will not see there a big difference, especially in the phase characteristics.
In Dimarzio there is a difference in the frequency response of coils. But they suffer from the Q-factor, because a coil has a higher DCR.

Here is an example SD TB-5


screws


slugs


screws without foil


slugs without foil




Dimarzio Evo Br.





We are more than 10 years ago solved the problem of low Q-factor. And in general all the fundamental problems.




Incidentally Zexcoil pickups liked, it seemed that they sound better than stacking pickups. The only thing that is unclear why the developer copies a spectrum of vintage piсkups?
For example if we consider the Strat pickups you can go to 7-7.5kHz leaving at the same level playing field. For the sound will be less glass and more iron. But this is my opinion.

[freefrog]

freefrog -SD does not make a double resonance pickups, Dimarzio no patent on the double resonance, they are the use of wires of different calibers in humbakers.
SD pickups have such diagrams can be seen when they are using a copper foil around the coils.
But in fact, if we measure the coils individually, we will not see there a big difference, especially in the phase characteristics.
In Dimarzio there is a difference in the frequency response of coils. But they suffer from the Q-factor, because a coil has a higher DCR.

Here is an example SD TB-5
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16365[/ATTACH]

screws
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16366[/ATTACH]

slugs
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16367[/ATTACH]

screws without foil
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16368[/ATTACH]

slugs without foil
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16368[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16369[/ATTACH]

Dimarzio Evo Br.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16370[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16371[/ATTACH]


We are more than 10 years ago solved the problem of low Q-factor. And in general all the fundamental problems.




Incidentally Zexcoil pickups liked, it seemed that they sound better than stacking pickups. The only thing that is unclear why the developer copies a spectrum of vintage piсkups?
For example if we consider the Strat pickups you can go to 7-7.5kHz leaving at the same level playing field. For the sound will be less glass and more iron. But this is my opinion.

Yes, I was aware of the principle behind the DM Dual-resonance concept. :-)

My sentence about Dual resonance was mostly a joke. That said, I've somewhere a measurement showing the frequency response of a SH4, whose resonance is actually bumped around 10khz, like in your first screenshot about the TB5 above. I'll post this picture if I find where I've put it (it's a 8 years old test so I don't remember where it's archived).

EDIT. I haven't (yet) found the picture that I was searching but I put as an attached file a bad screenshot showing partly what I was talking about (it's a SH4 through a high capacitance cable and a pair of bad pots so the test is not really accurate but it "gives an idea").

[MrCandy]

Yes, I was aware of the principle behind the DM Dual-resonance concept. :-)

My sentence about SD was mostly a joke. That said, I've somewhere a measurement showing the frequency response of a SH4, whose resonance is actually bumped around 10khz. I'll post this screenshot if I find where I've put it (it's a 8 years old test so I don't remember where it's archived).

:-)
Often not visible in the spectrogram that the pickup has two resonances, it often depends on the material baseplate.
In some SD pickups, wrap the foil shows two humps, but they sound like no two resonances.
To measure each coil individually, frequency characteristic and phase. Sometimes it is usually impossible measure ..
For example, if an active pickup.

[Mike Sulzer]

Any realistic explanaation of what is happening must include the fact that the dominant capacitance in the system is the cable capacitance. That is, the two individual coil resonances are not the main effect. Over the useful frequency range to 5 KHz, you have the frequency response mostly determined by the sum of the two coil inductances and their resistances interacting with the cable capacitance, modified only somewhat by the differences in the two coil sefl-resonances. These are well above that main resonance.

:-)
Often not visible in the spectrogram that the pickup has two resonances, it often depends on the material baseplate.
In some SD pickups, wrap the foil shows two humps, but they sound like no two resonances.
To measure each coil individually, frequency characteristic and phase. Sometimes it is usually impossible measure ..
For example, if an active pickup.

[MrCandy]

Any realistic explanaation of what is happening must include the fact that the dominant capacitance in the system is the cable capacitance. That is, the two individual coil resonances are not the main effect. Over the useful frequency range to 5 KHz, you have the frequency response mostly determined by the sum of the two coil inductances and their resistances interacting with the cable capacitance, modified only somewhat by the differences in the two coil sefl-resonances. These are well above that main resonance.

Yes, Mike. Plot up to 5 kHz is the most important. But not so simple as it may seem .
If we take the pickup with single resonance and double, and they will have approximately
the same plot forward curve, the single resonance pickup will sound like in an aquarium.
Let me repeat once again that the phase characteristic a double resonant pickups have a complicated form,
even if the coils are very close interaction and connection to the cable.
Double resonance pickups sound more transparent, it is unnecessary to confuse transparent and high frequencies.
Single resonance pickups have a very muddy and expressionless tone, while high frequency presence,
in most cases more than you need, but the tone in any way dull.
The whole problem of DM is that they have one coil is unreasonably high resistance,
so the suffering Q. The sound is crumbly and lose integrity.

[nicholaspaul]

Makers like Bartolini have been doing this for years, and they patented their initial designs too.

He says his design is patented, so if it is, it would pretty much show exactly what he's doing.

[EDIT]

Here's the patents:

Musical instrument pickup - Google Patents

Musical instrument pickup systems - Google Patents

Dr. A. Scott Lawing has about 14 patents to his name!

Wow, that's a lot of information! I wonder if Behringer have seen this?