Fiber flatwork vs plastic bobbin.

[David Schwab]

The plastic bobbins that are available, have very limited Winding space.
You have so many more variables with Flatwork.

That's true of some of the plastic single coil bobbins I've seen. That's probably because they are intended to have a ceramic magnet on the bottom.

But it's real easy to alter the height of a plastic bobbin. All you have to do it saw it up the middle, and then use taller poles to support it. Then you can tape it up to cover the gap. You need to glue the poles in.

I do this all the time.

But that wasn't what the discussion was about. Just because it's forbon or plastic wont matter tone wise very much.

[Jim Shine]

I encounter lots of voodoo in the vintage guitar world. There are many reasons for it. Some are always chasing the unattainable (often blaming their sound when it is really their lack of skill). But much of it these days is people are breaking down the elements of the old guitars and showing the scientific reasons why they were what they were. Then this information is used to repeat the results with modern guitars. This is bad for the people that really want to believe older is better, be it to protect their investments or to maintain their belief system.

[Alan0354]

I encounter lots of voodoo in the vintage guitar world. There are many reasons for it. Some are always chasing the unattainable (often blaming their sound when it is really their lack of skill). But much of it these days is people are breaking down the elements of the old guitars and showing the scientific reasons why they were what they were. Then this information is used to repeat the results with modern guitars. This is bad for the people that really want to believe older is better, be it to protect their investments or to maintain their belief system.

The world is still hold on by the baby boomers that refuse to fade away. They are preventing the world from turning. Even I belong to the tail end of the BB, but I have no such believe like them They hold on the the 60s songs, hold on the the believes that is bad for the country. They look for the "sound" that their old instrument produce and use it as a standard. It is absolutely their stubbornness and righteousness that is holding back the progress.

In my book, the new Fender America Standard strat feels and sound better. What make you think those people in the 50s know what they are doing? Nothing more than trial and error. Now people treat it like the truth!!! Unless people can do A/B comparison to show, I don't believe in most of the myth if there is no scientific proof to back it up.

[CRU JONES]

Alan,
It took you 30 minutes to read Merlin's book? And then you laughed?

No offense, but I think you suffer from a false sense of how awesome you are. Post a YouTube of your amp. Have you heard any clips of Merlin's amps? They are prett dialed! I'm not the only one that thinks that. Put some time in. Wind some pickups, build some amps. Until then, I'm rolling my eyes. No offense, I just think you are getting way ahead of yourself.

Ethan

[Alan0354]

Alan,
It took you 30 minutes to read Merlin's book? And then you laughed?

No offense, but I think you suffer from a false sense of how awesome you are. Post a YouTube of your amp. Have you heard any clips of Merlin's amps? They are prett dialed! I'm not the only one that thinks that. Put some time in. Wind some pickups, build some amps. Until then, I'm rolling my eyes. No offense, I just think you are getting way ahead of yourself.

Ethan

I took that out because it's too offensive. I got rid of the amp in 1980 already. I quit so sudden I only had one old cassette tape and I have no way to even put it on the CD because I don't even have a tape player. Believe what you want to believe. I know what I did. I only need to impress people I need to. FYI, I published two papers in the prestige American Institute of Physics Review of Scientific Instruments and own a pattern on electronics. That I can show if needed. I might delete the post, but I do stand by what I said. The two thing are nothing more than having separate 6.3V transformers, and I use 6 of the 36v small transformers and string together to power the preamp tubes that enable me to put the variac directly onto the power transformer that proportionally adjust the B+ and -grid2. The MOSFET is nothing more that a source follower with either big varying resistor like a volume pot or some simple circuits. These are no big inventions by a long stretch. I did the variac before I studied electronics and whole thing started because I shipped my Marshall from Hong Kong that is for 220V and It gave me some decent sound when I plug into the 110V!!! If I can get hold of a cassette deck, I will post the recording here. That was the exact sound I want and even it was taped by a cheap handheld cassette, I am still proud of it.

[CRU JONES]

I took that out because it's too offensive. I got rid of the amp in 1980 already. I quit so sudden I only had one old cassette tape and I have no way to even put it on the CD because I don't even have a tape player. Believe what you want to believe. I know what I did. I only need to impress people I need to. FYI, I published two papers in the prestige American Institute of Physics Review of Scientific Instruments and own a pattern on electronics. That I can show if needed.

Ok. Fine. Good job. Frankly you don't need to impress me. I already read what you wrote in the thread about active preamps. Those are good calculations... Now build some circuits, play them and listen to them. THEN you will understand what slew rate is. You just need to put some time in, that's all. You can do it! Until then, you are just a Noob.

Ethan

[Alan0354]

Ok. Fine. Good job. Frankly you don't need to impress me. I already read what you wrote in the thread about active preamps. Those are good calculations... Now build some circuits, play them and listen to them. THEN you will understand what slew rate is. You just need to put some time in, that's all. You can do it! Until then, you are just a Noob.

Ethan

I understand what slew rate is, the EMG circuit diagram used a different preamp OPA123 that don't have that problem. I can't read their mind that they implemented with such a slow op-amp. Low current is not that critical, I had my design that use about 2mA. I accidentally left the switch on for over 2 weeks and still I have over 8V on the 9V battery and it was not a new battery to start out. I don't know the amp hours of the 9V alka. but if it is 500mAhr, than it will run 1000 hours continuously, that is nothing to sneeze about and I won't sacrifice performance just to extend it longer. I always believe in getting the sound out unchanged first before putting any manipulation. I use opamp that is 3V/uS to get it out of the way of the pup and let the pickup shine. Not only the amp they used is slow, it is very high noise of over 50nV/sqrt(Hz). I use nothing more than 9nV.

It is just sad even if I build another amp, I can't play for $hit!!! Not only I have not been practicing, I have carpal tunnel on my hand and I loss feeling on my fingers after just a few minutes of playing. Only chance is if I can find a way to upload onto the computer than I can try to post it here.

[Steve Conner]

Well, if you think this is all so dull, what are you even doing here?! Go away and invent something awesome, come back and blow our socks off.

As far as I know, the MEF is one of the more down-to-earth and practical forums. There are lots of engineers and physicists here. I design condition monitoring equipment for the electric power industry, all DSPs, FPGAs, switching power supplies, 6 layer boards and so on. Sometimes it's exciting, but most days it is too much like work, especially when it comes time to write the firmware.

I like guitars and tube amps because they are simple, old school analog electronics. The simplicity is deceptive. In a way it's harder to design something with two tubes and five resistors, than the "big box" mentality they teach in school, where you plug together idealised blocks in a "signal flow".

I also have a stock American Standard strat that I've not bothered to tweak, swap out pickups or the like. I got it home from the guitar shop, plugged it in, sounded like a Strat, job done.

I was doing the MOSFET thing in the 90s too, but only just, 1999.

[David Schwab]

The world is still hold on by the baby boomers that refuse to fade away. They are preventing the world from turning.

Actually the young players are stuck in this vintage fad as well. And some of them haven't even been playing all that long, but they think they know what they want.

[David Schwab]

I understand what slew rate is, the EMG circuit diagram used a different preamp OPA123 that don't have that problem.

That's wrong. The original EMGs use a LM4250, just like the original Musicman preamps. I don't know what the X series is using.

[Alan0354]

That's wrong. The original EMGs use a LM4250, just like the original Musicman preamps. I don't know what the X series is using.

The schematic you posted was OPA123!!! I can only go by that. I don't have any others.

[David Schwab]

The schematic you posted was OPA123!!! I can only go by that. I don't have any others.

Yeah, I know. But others have said it was an LM4250. I didn't draw that schematic, but I know who did. The op amp was actually a private label part.



Either way, the 4250 is a low current op amp, and doesn't have the best audio specs, but it actually sounds quite good. I'm been making Musicman style 2-band preamps and was surprised how good it sounds.

[Alan0354]

Well, if you think this is all so dull, what are you even doing here?! Go away and invent something awesome, come back and blow our socks off.

As far as I know, the MEF is one of the more down-to-earth and practical forums. There are lots of engineers and physicists here. I design condition monitoring equipment for the electric power industry, all DSPs, FPGAs, switching power supplies, 6 layer boards and so on. Sometimes it's exciting, but most days it is too much like work, especially when it comes time to write the firmware.

I like guitars and tube amps because they are simple, old school analog electronics. The simplicity is deceptive. In a way it's harder to design something with two tubes and five resistors, than the "big box" mentality they teach in school, where you plug together idealised blocks in a "signal flow".

I also have a stock American Standard strat that I've not bothered to tweak, swap out pickups or the like. I got it home from the guitar shop, plugged it in, sounded like a Strat, job done.

I was doing the MOSFET thing in the 90s too, but only just, 1999.

I actually become so passionate in electronics that I quit music all together. But I mainly stay with analog, RF, transistors, EM, IC design etc. Never did DSP, did a lot of embedded processors, FPGA, but would not be my first choice. I still find electronics exciting and I am more thinking in terms of electronics than music here. I am just surprised how little is going on in these kind of electronics.

[Steve Conner]

There has been a lot of progress in some areas. Check out the Fractal Axe digital modelling amp, it runs two TigerSharc DSPs and has enough processing power to forecast weather for the whole of Europe while it's making you sound awesome. And if you go to NAMM or wherever, I'm sure you'll see plenty of crazy guitars made out of carbon fibre with Ethernet jacks, control surfaces for Max/MSP, and so on.

But you won't find a DIY community or cottage industry around much of this stuff. Tube amps are popular because the average guy has a chance of understanding how they work and building his own. Ditto the 1950s designs of guitar pickups. The rocket science stuff has a high barrier to entry: Cliff Chase would have paid about $14,000 to get the development tools for his Fractal Axe thing.

I guess some people do make their own DSP effects as a hobby, but they don't seem to hang around here.

[CRU JONES]

This is the response to big-teee about I have no place in pickup talk because I don't wind pup. Not to the general public. I do amp design and electronics also, I mainly do tube amp. But for audiophile amp, The best one I like is YBL which is transistors. I think for clean sound, it is going to be hard to say one better than the other. For distortion sound, tube do have a different characteristics from the transistor amp. Just different, not necessary not as good. But this is like the vintage pickup also, people have preconception that the vintage are better because they have to sound burnt into their mind how a real guitar should sound. I am being a late Fender convert that I use Gibson in my gigging days. I don't have a preconception of how the strat should sound and I pick the new MIA strat over the vintage strat that I actually had ( an early 60s real vintage strat).

Also regarding to amp, I am yet to be convinced that there is a big difference the sound of a specific cap, or has to be carbon comp resistors. To me it's all about the design. And at that, people pretty much copying one another, change a few values and called it their own.

There is a measurable difference between capacitors and resistors of different size/ construction. The question is: Is the difference big enough to be useful as an ingredient in your creation?