New Polymer Neodium magnet VIDEO, standard pickup constructions tests and comparison

[MrCandy]

Hello respected community.

We have not written for a long time cause we improved our Polymer Neodymium Iron Boron magnets production.
The result is the emergence of two new types 50mT charged NIB magnets and 100mT charged,
please check our site if you are interested in more detailed information.
We also would like to introduce you to yet another comparison test of NIB magnets in standard pickup constructions.

We will be glad to hear your thoughts.Thanks.

[frankfalbo]

I don't want to be the first to say something and be negative, but in all cases, I felt the sound of the traditional magnet (Alnico or Ceramic) was better than the sound of the Neo. This does not mean your new magnet is bad. I believe you can design pickups around the sound of these magnets, seeking to take advantage of the sonic properties. I also believe that the magic of these magnets is not in molding standard magnet shapes, used in current pickup designs. These magnets could be molded with integrated magnetic field shaping including weird fun things like air gaps and varied, controlled gauss strength across a bar magnet.

[David Schwab]

I liked the neo better than the ceramic magnet. I think it was brighter than the A2, but that's to be expected. I felt the neo might have lacked warmth, but the A2 was also too dark for my tastes.

But as Frank said, adapting the pickup to the magnet would fix that.

I have three of these magnets as samples that I'm going to test out, but haven't had a chance yet. I like the small dual rail Strat size magnet. I'll report back when I do.

[copperheadroads]

Actually I have some samples of Mr Candy's Nib magnets
(I only had a hour or so to try them before heading to the patch) But they do really sound nice
If you think there just for high output (which they do very well) they do sound very warm & bright
Especially the 50mt (lower gauss) magnets

[MrCandy]

I don't want to be the first to say something and be negative, but in all cases, I felt the sound of the traditional magnet (Alnico or Ceramic) was better than the sound of the Neo. This does not mean your new magnet is bad. I believe you can design pickups around the sound of these magnets, seeking to take advantage of the sonic properties. I also believe that the magic of these magnets is not in molding standard magnet shapes, used in current pickup designs. These magnets could be molded with integrated magnetic field shaping including weird fun things like air gaps and varied, controlled gauss strength across a bar magnet.

In my opinion not just variability in the forms make this magnets unique.
They just sound better in pickup constructions, because they were made for better sounding in pickup constructions
It is really hard for people to accept something new, but any industry must develop.
Note that all sounds better lively and you could have hear the difference more clearly
if you would had real samples.

One way or another check out audio comparison here, all sound samples from the video are listed in ADDITION,
it can be more convenient to compare.

[David Schwab]

Actually I have some samples of Mr Candy's Nib magnets
(I only had a hour or so to try them before heading to the patch) But they do really sound nice
If you think there just for high output (which they do very well) they do sound very warm & bright
Especially the 50mt (lower gauss) magnets

Do you have a Gauss meter to check those?

I've been talking to MrCandy about this, but I thought I'd mention it here in case someone has another opinion on the matter.

I have three of these magnets, two in HB size, and one for the Strat size dual rail pickups.

The magnets are marked as follows; one of the HB size says "~ 50mT", one says "~ 75mT" and the small one is "~ 65mT".

So, if we translate millitesla (mT) to Gauss (G), they would be 500G, 750G, and 650G, respectively. That seemed very low to me for NiB magnets.

If I do the old "refrigerator" test, where I stick the magnet on the 'fridge and pull it off, these feel on par with some ceramic magnets I have. They are no where near as strong as even very small NiB magnets I use. You have a hard time pulling them lose. I have a small N52 NiB magnet that measures 3/4" X 1/4" by 1/16" that's magnetized though the 1/4" dimension, and that reads out of range on my meter, which places it past 1650 Gauss.

So, using my Gauss meter, I get the following; the magnet marked 50mT reads about 830G, or 83mT. I charged the 75mT magnet with some neos in a vice, so I wont measure that, as it now reads 1261G (126.1mT). I believe it was a bit lower to start with, so I ran it though a couple of large neos in a vice to see if it would get stronger. A similar size ceramic magnet I have reads 750G.

The small neo for the dual rail pickups is marked 65mT, and reads 1193G at it strongest part. That's 119.3mT. MrCandy thought my readings were doubled. But when I checked some common magnets I have here, I get readings I would expect.

For example, the dual rail ceramic 8 magnet from Mojo ( Mojo Pickup Parts » Mojotone Ceramic 8 Bar Magnet (2.35L x .250W x .120T) ) reads 1047G at the strongest part. In the pull test, it's slightly weaker than the NiB magnet, which makes sense, as it's also slightly smaller, and is not a neo magnet.

An alnico 5 HB magnet I have here reads about 550G, which is also what I would expect. Some alnico rod magnets I have here read about 650G.

So I'm confused about the measurements being used. Also, these are very weak for neo magnets of this size, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as most are so strong that you need to use very small neo magnets in pickups.

When I get some time for experimenting I'm going to try them out.

[copperheadroads]

I have the same samples ,I only measured the 2 humbucker magnets & they read similar to what you posted

[MrCandy]

I have the same samples ,I only measured the 2 humbucker magnets & they read similar to what you posted

Do you have Pickup Gaussmeter v.3.0 like David has?

[copperheadroads]

Do you have Pickup Gaussmeter v.3.0 like David has?

Yes Elepro's Gaussmeter v 3.0

[MrCandy]

We checked the measurements by 2 methods.
To check our device data we took HoneyWell SS496A sensor(SS496A.pdf).
Its range is -840/+840 GAUSS. We connected 4.7K out load and measured its NULL. SUPPLY VOLTAGE - 5.088v.

V NULL - 2.562v

We tested this sensor max out -Vlimit=16.79mV




Vmax= Vnull - Vlim
Bmax is the limit where sensor shuts.
Vmax is maximal value that determines 840gauss(Bmax)
ΔV= Vmax - Vout
Bgauss=Bmax*ΔV/Vmax

Now we measure ~50mT NIB magnet with SS496A sensor

Vmax= 2.562 - 0.01679 = 2.5452
ΔV= 2.5452 - 0.91 = 1.6542
Bgauss= 840*1.6542/ 2.5452 = 545.9 gauss (54.5 mT)

Now we measure this ~50mT NIB with our device
B=549 Gauss(54.9mT)


The same procedure with A2:
SS496A sensor
B= 396 Gauss(39.6mT)


Our device
B=404 Gauss(40.4mT)



I dont think we need to lose time to calculate statistical error and everything is clear

So I think you need to check your sensors by similar methodic.
Maybe your devices measure not from sensor factical NULL, they could measure from ground.

[-Elepro-]

Vmax= Vnull - Vlim
Bmax is the limit where sensor shuts.
Vmax is maximal value that determines 840gauss(Bmax)
ΔV= Vmax - Vout
Bgauss=Bmax*ΔV/Vmax

this is a very ingenious formula....

,,,, but sensitivity parameter of your datasheet is not useful for you???

it is easy:

sensitivity of that sensor is =2.5mV/gauss .....
this means that the out of that sensor has 2.5mV of deviation from Vnull for each gauss ...
example:

if you have Vnull=2.5 and Vout(with a magnet near your sensor)= 1V....

ΔV = Vnull-Vout = 2.5-1 = 1.5V

then gauss= deviation/sensitivity = 1.5V/0.0025= 400gauss

(....and my meter makes 64 or 1024 or 131K measures and average them for each displayed value)

I dont think we need to lose time to calculate statistical error....

i hope....

So I think you need to check your sensors by similar methodic.
Maybe your devices measure not from sensor factical NULL, they could measure from ground.

maybe your device measures nothing....

[MrCandy]

Dear friend -Elepro- we recommend that you check everything one more time.
We used the actual data for calculations when we measured by SS496A sensor.
Ok lets use datasheet information for this sensor.
David measured ~50mT NIB magnet and got 830 gauss result with your device.
Then our sensor would have to measure:
ΔV=830*0.0025(datasheet sens)
ΔV=2.075V
Vout=Vnull - ΔV
Vout=2.562(actual null)-2.075= 0.487V
Meanwhile actual V measurements, that we got earlier were
Vout=0.910V

If this magnet would be 830 Gauss, then SS496A would have showed ~0.487V.
But it showed 0.910V

We used SS496A sensor as an alternative sensor.
In our device we use ДХК–0,5А.

Measurement range of our device:

1) 0,0 – 60,0 мТл;
2) 60 – 600 мТл;
3) 0,60 – 2,00 Тл.

[-Elepro-]

Dear friend -Elepro- we recommend that you check everything one more time.

i have nothing to check... my meter works with real mathematics... not with invented formula as you do

is this your formula a fantasy invention???

Vmax= Vnull - Vlim
Bmax is the limit where sensor shuts.
Vmax is maximal value that determines 840gauss(Bmax)
ΔV= Vmax - Vout
Bgauss=Bmax*ΔV/Vmax

Now we measure ~50mT NIB magnet with SS496A sensor
Attachment 16274
Vmax= 2.562 - 0.01679 = 2.5452
ΔV= 2.5452 - 0.91 = 1.6542
Bgauss= 840*1.6542/ 2.5452 = 545.9 gauss (54.5 mT)

....watching this, what i can think about all your data and measurements???

bye

[MrCandy]

Do not be so nervous, my friend.
We have already ordered sensor A1302 (shipping time 10 days) David measured with
to check is there any problems in your device.
We intend to measure Vout on this NIB magnet.
If your product works correct, we will get data close to David.

[-Elepro-]

Do not be so nervous, my friend....

ok i'm very nervous so this is my last post here....

but the point is not the value of the magnet that you have at home .... (...you have enough fantasy to invent a new formula that measures the value that you would like it has. )

the point to be clarified is why you insult me saying my meter don't work... and you did not reply about your fantasy formula/measurements????

please explain your formula...

bye