New Polymer Neodium magnet VIDEO, standard pickup constructions tests and comparison

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I might be alone in saying this, but I liked the magnets! They didn't have the same "sonic fingerprint" of the alnico or ceramic, but with the NIB magnets the pickups were more dynamic and changed tone more with the player's changes in pick attack. It is great to have another option out there and something new.

Saying that you'd have to re-evaluate the design of the pickup for the new magnet is, I'd say, a bit of a no-brainer. On the clean clip I DO think I'd have taken the alnico 2 version over the NIB, but no doubt that pickup was designed with some sort of alnico in mind.

Steve & Brad - is this Glasgow thing an open invitation? I'll come along. I love the whisky there, and Karen Gillan is gorgeous.

[David Schwab]

I might be alone in saying this, but I liked the magnets! They didn't have the same "sonic fingerprint" of the alnico or ceramic, but with the NIB magnets the pickups were more dynamic and changed tone more with the player's changes in pick attack. It is great to have another option out there and something new.

I want to make it clear that I'm not criticizing the magnets. I haven't tried them yet, but I like the sound clips, and can see myself using them, especially the small dual blade magnet.

My only concern was that they are on the weak side for neos, but that's actually OK for guitar pickups. I did managed to charge the humbucker size magnets a little stronger.

But I started asking about the measurements because I was getting a much higher reading than what's written on them, and that reading makes sense since they match some ceramics I have here.

It doesn't really matter anyway, since I don't look for magnets based on any particular number.

[Steve Conner]

From the "polymer" description, I got the impression that these magnets were deliberately weakened, say by mixing NIB powder with epoxy (disclaimer: I'm no chemist) to put them in the same gauss range as traditional pickup magnets when made in the traditional sizes. So that is actually the selling point, a magnet that drops into an existing assembly and gives similar output but a different tonal option.

Funky, sure, if you can be bothered coming to Glasgow!

[MrCandy]

I want to make it clear that I'm not criticizing the magnets. I haven't tried them yet, but I like the sound clips, and can see myself using them, especially the small dual blade magnet.

My only concern was that they are on the weak side for neos, but that's actually OK for guitar pickups. I did managed to charge the humbucker size magnets a little stronger.

But I started asking about the measurements because I was getting a much higher reading than what's written on them, and that reading makes sense since they match some ceramics I have here.

It doesn't really matter anyway, since I don't look for magnets based on any particular number.

David, the device can not be calibrated using a magnet.
It is necessary to apply etalon the magnetic field.


copperheadroads, you can measure the voltage of your sensor. Vcc, Vo (not near a magnet), Vout for our magnets.
What is the sensor on your device?

[-Elepro-]

David, the device can not be calibrated using a magnet.

you did that in post #10....



but please reply to this:

what do you say about the fact that according to your measurements you have a sensor with 3.3 mV/gauss sensitivity (error of 32% compared to datasheet value) ????

if you are so sure of your sensor sensitivity measured value (totally out of specifications)... why you put your trust in its correct linearity???

[MrCandy]

you did that in post #10....



but please reply to this:

what do you say about the fact that according to your measurements you have a sensor with 3.3 mV/gauss sensitivity (error of 32% compared to datasheet value) ????

if you are so sure of your sensor sensitivity measured value (totally out of specifications)... why you put your trust in its correct linearity???

You need to address this question manufacturer sensor.
We did our test device using etalon!
You should also learn to do the calibration using reference values if you want that your appliances
considered to be accurate, you are now disposes only indirect data)))
You must provide documentary proof here using the calibration etalon.

[RedHouse]

It's becomming extremely clear that MrCandy is, in the proverbial sense of the phrase ...."full of it".
(here, and past threads)

[David Schwab]

David, the device can not be calibrated using a magnet.
It is necessary to apply etalon the magnetic field.

However, if a magnet has a known strength of say 600G, you need to test your meter so it doesn't give you a different reading. If your meter is saying it's 400G, then it's wrong.

We did this buy using a known magnet that was read two calibrated commercial meters. Then our sensors were offset to match the commercial meters.

Your readings on lower powered magnets seem more in range, so maybe there is a linearity problem.

Also, I realize there is a slight language issue, so I'm not sure about your meaning of "etalon" which is a Fabry–Pérot interferometer, and deals with measuring light transmission.

[Steve Conner]

At my old job we used to struggle with "etalon effect" in our fibre optic setups all the time, and what we meant was an unwanted Fabry-Perot cavity screwing up the results.

I guessed it started out as the French/Russian word for "standard" or "reference", and came to also mean an interferometer, through people using interferometers as distance and frequency standards.

If something like this was happening in my lab (two supposedly calibrated instruments disagree violently with each other) it would drive me mad and I would drop everything else until I figured it out.

[David Schwab]

David with all due respect it is just empty talking.
We conducted etalon measurements. What other prove do you need to say that our device is accurate?
Please make your measurements as we made here.

OK, so you understand... in that post you wrote:

David, all this sensors are pretty accurate and linear. all device calibration is actual NULL checkpoint and also setting sensor sensivity params.
Meanwile with the help of simple multimeter you can determine the approximate magnet charge in gauss since voltage at the output of the sensor is proportional to the magnetic flux.
You can compare voltmeter data interpreted in the gauss with data your device shows you.
For this you need to measure NULL on A1302 sensor(no magnets nearby), then took a magnet to sensor and measure voltage on sensor out.
If you measure North, then you need Vnull - Vout to get DeltaV, if you measure south then Vout-Vnull to get DeltaV.
To find gauss value you need DeltaV/sensitivity. A1302 datasheet sensivity= 1.3mV/G (VCC on sensor = 5 V)
Check this out. There is a small error anyway but in wont be 10+ percent difference.

When you turn this meter on, you do it away from magnets. Then it will zero (null) itself. Then when you take a reading you have started with the sensor nulled.

The meter also auto senses North or South.

The actual A1302 sensor was tested, and the meter was then calibrated to the sensor's offset.

Because this sensor was compared to two other commercial meters, and calibrated to match them, I am secure int he knowledge that the reading is accurate.

And, this is just to point out to you that your magnets are stronger than stated, but is exactly what you would expect if you compare them to a magnet that is rated at what you state the NiBs are. 600G is pretty weak for a magnet.

[CRU JONES]

In my opinion not just variability in the forms make this magnets unique.
They just sound better in pickup constructions, because they were made for better sounding in pickup constructions
It is really hard for people to accept something new, but any industry must develop.
Note that all sounds better lively and you could have hear the difference more clearly
if you would had real samples.

One way or another check out audio comparison here, all sound samples from the video are listed in ADDITION,
it can be more convenient to compare.

Very interesting magnet! I think I could find a use for these. Low relative permeability, low electric conductivity. very much unlike an A2, but like a Ceramic with lower field strength? I think I would like that! Is 100pcs. the minimum order? I just ordered C5 in 0.125"x .5"x 2.5" from Shea at magnetic hold. I would like to compare them with your PolyNeo's!

Thanks for sharing your measurements!
Ethan

[David Schwab]

Very interesting magnet! I think I could find a use for these. Low relative permeability, low electric conductivity. very much unlike an A2, but like a Ceramic with lower field strength? I think I would like that! Is 100pcs. the minimum order? I just ordered C5 in 0.125"x .5"x 2.5" from Shea at magnetic hold. I would like to compare them with your PolyNeo's!

The samples I have are slightly stronger than similar size ceramics. They do look like interesting magnets, and I'm looking forward to trying them out.

I want to make clear again that my questioning the listed strength of the magnet doesn't mean I think they are bad, and they actually read stronger than what they are listed. This makes sense since they are stronger than the ceramics I have in a pull test.

I like neo magnets and have been using them for about six years now. These are weaker than the ones I commonly use, but that's a good thing when using them for guitar magnets. If I find a good design to use them with I plan on getting some.

[Joe Gwinn]

While I have no opinion on the relative merits of MrCandy's magnetic field measurements and this Etalon (is there data on this instrument?), I would note that one can make a simple transfer standard from a neo magnet and an almost closed soft iron or mild steel magnetic circuit. Once the transfer standard is assembled, the field will be constant and can be made uniform enough that minor misalignment of the sensor won't seriously affect results. If built strongly enough, with a wooden shipping box, it will be practical to ship the standard around for inter-lab comparisons.

[MrCandy]

While I have no opinion on the relative merits of MrCandy's magnetic field measurements and this Etalon (is there data on this instrument?), I would note that one can make a simple transfer standard from a neo magnet and an almost closed soft iron or mild steel magnetic circuit. Once the transfer standard is assembled, the field will be constant and can be made uniform enough that minor misalignment of the sensor won't seriously affect results. If built strongly enough, with a wooden shipping box, it will be practical to ship the standard around for inter-lab comparisons.

We conduct additional tests (in a wider band reception) with the reference values.
We have a prior results, which we will publish later.
At the moment I can say that not all correct

[MrCandy]

Very interesting magnet! I think I could find a use for these. Low relative permeability, low electric conductivity. very much unlike an A2, but like a Ceramic with lower field strength? I think I would like that! Is 100pcs. the minimum order? I just ordered C5 in 0.125"x .5"x 2.5" from Shea at magnetic hold. I would like to compare them with your PolyNeo's!

Thanks for sharing your measurements!
Ethan

Yes, we have a minimum order 100 pcs, this is due to the production technology.
But we can send you sample if you pay shipping - $ 10 and you will not be disappointed in these magnets.
We recorded the sample close to the studio recording in the style of the old metal to make it clear how work magnet in real conditions.
When recording only used amp (crunch channel).
T34NEO-polymer approximately to the studio.mp3