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To pot or not to pot?

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  • To pot or not to pot?

    Here are some parts of the ToneQuest interview with Robert Randolph. My comments are below.
    http://www.lollarguitars.com/Articles/TQRNov06.pdf

    Unpotted pickups usually have a funkiness about them – an extra vibe or presence that disappears once you use wax potting or a solvent-based film coating like shellac.

    I can tell very quickly if a pickup is microphonic, and I like that sound. It really belongs on a Telecaster. I wind my coils pretty tight and use minimal potting, and in the past I never used potting.

    You can pot a pickup so completely that it produces a very dull sound with no liveliness to it. Wax will dampen microphonics pretty efficiently, and the film coating used in late ‘60s Fender pickups will have less of an effect. Potting also helps hold the pickup together, keeping the outside layer of the coil from shifting over time and becoming more microphonic, which is pretty common with older pickups.

    Potting penetration – it’s all got to be regulated if you want consistency with the level of microphonics present. You have to time how long the pickup is being potted, regulating the pre-potting temperature of the coil and the wax. You also need to use a vacuum set to a specific strength for specific penetration of the coil.

    My comments
    1. If the coil is wound tight, it appears that only the outer layer can be microphonic. The inner layers are compressed by the layers on top of them. This prevents them from being microphonic.

    2. It appears that microphonic pickups can be desirable on Fender guitars.

    3. It appears that microphonic pickups are not desirable or do not affect the sound much on Gibson guitars and that heavily potted (non-microphonic) pickups are OK on Gibson guitars.

    4. I am skeptical about needing a vacuum chamber to pot pickups in.

    Please comment.
    -Bryan

  • #2
    Originally posted by tbryanh View Post
    1. If the coil is wound tight, it appears that only the outer layer can be microphonic. The inner layers are compressed by the layers on top of them. This prevents them from being microphonic.
    Makes sense to me. I haven't would a lot of single coils, and I haven't potted any of the humbuckers I've wound.

    I have coated some bass pickups with polyurethane, but just brushed it on the coils to glue down some loose windings, and I encapsulated them in potting epoxy. I didn't notice any difference in tone, but then they don't have a lot of wire on them.

    Originally posted by tbryanh View Post
    2. It appears that microphonic pickups can be desirable on Fender guitars.
    Kind of ironic, since they are often potted!

    Originally posted by tbryanh View Post
    3. It appears that microphonic pickups are not desirable or do not affect the sound much on Gibson guitars and that heavily potted (non-microphonic) pickups are OK on Gibson guitars.
    Also ironic since Gibson never potted their pickups.

    Originally posted by tbryanh View Post
    4. I am skeptical about needing a vacuum chamber to pot pickups in.
    Well Jason says in that article that he doesn't pot as deeply as some because it ruins the tone.

    I've decided I'm not wax potting because of all the negative opinions about it.

    Rick Turner uses shellac on his horseshoe pickups. He said that sounded the best of the things he tried.
    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


    http://coneyislandguitars.com
    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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    • #3
      I have a different opinion...

      I agree... potting will affect the tone, sometimes ruining it, sometimes not...


      But sometimes is very important to understand the environment and the styles you're using the guitar with. And sometimes Potting will be a great help to some players.

      A well wound pickup won't be microphonic in excess, and I think it's true that a little amount of microphonics make the pickup alive.

      (I developed a technique for making a "Zero microphonics potting" and the pickup sounded absolutely sterile)

      But...

      What would you say to a customer that plays hard rock or metal music if he asks you for a specific microphonics problem?

      In some cases, a well potted pickup will make the difference.

      I always remember a 12 year old guy who came to my house, asking for a wax potting, since he had a chinese (but well made, anyway) guitar with excessive microphonics on his pickups. He didn't ask a lot for a "very responsive" or "open" sound. He just wanted to play alive without microphonic feedback. Or play at high volumes without becoming frustrated.

      At young ages, frustration is a serious issue and I didn't want to lose a guitar player, so I took the job for a very small fee. When he heard his pickups sounded without microphonics at high levels, he was so I happy... It was one of my first jobs, so I never forgot his face, hehehehe...

      A few days ago I discussed with some guitars players that sometimes we make a lot of efforts, spend money, time and concern about tone. But actually, the audience doesn't care if the pickups you're using are the best sounding pickups ever... they will care if you play out of tune, and of course they will care if you make unwanted noises while playing...

      (and that's the reason for guitar players to pot their pickups)



      So... I don't think it's well worth saying "Potting is good" or "Potting is bad"...

      Sometimes you may really need to pot, and sometimes you may kill your pickup tone. A smart "Pickup-Man" should know the difference and understand what guitar players really need.

      Greetings,
      Ben

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by David Schwab View Post
        Makes sense to me. I haven't would a lot of single coils, and I haven't potted any of the humbuckers I've wound.

        I have coated some bass pickups with polyurethane, but just brushed it on the coils to glue down some loose windings, and I encapsulated them in potting epoxy. I didn't notice any difference in tone, but then they don't have a lot of wire on them.
        David,

        Do you use epoxy specifically formulated for electronic potting or just the regular "off-the-shelf" type ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by radii View Post
          David,

          Do you use epoxy specifically formulated for electronic potting or just the regular "off-the-shelf" type ?
          I use epoxy made for potting. It's black. It's made by MG Chemicals, and the Mouser part number is 590-832B-375ML.
          It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


          http://coneyislandguitars.com
          www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks David. That is a much better deal then the Loctite cartridge. The automatic mix/- dispensing gun that comes with the Loctite system, is nice though.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by radii View Post
              The automatic mix/- dispensing gun that comes with the Loctite system, is nice though.
              It's a damn messy process!
              It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


              http://coneyislandguitars.com
              www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

              Comment


              • #8
                The Loctite method couldn't be cleaner, and it seems to be the most liquid epoxy I know. Inject it into one hole with the bobbins/coils in place, and it fills the whole enclosure.
                It seems a little wastefull though, as the epoxy that is still in the mixing nosle ( about 4" long, 1/4" dia. ) ends up in the garbage. Mixing the right amount by hand however, doesn't seem that presise either. Oh well ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by radii View Post
                  The Loctite method couldn't be cleaner, and it seems to be the most liquid epoxy I know. Inject it into one hole with the bobbins/coils in place, and it fills the whole enclosure.
                  It seems a little wastefull though, as the epoxy that is still in the mixing nosle ( about 4" long, 1/4" dia. ) ends up in the garbage. Mixing the right amount by hand however, doesn't seem that presise either. Oh well ...
                  It was easy enough to mix... they give you little cups and stuff. Not knowing how much I would need, I mixed up a certain amount, and it was enough for one pickup, so I mixed double the amount, since I was potting two.

                  The hard part is to try and pour it into the pickup and not get it all over the place! It set up in about 30 minutes, but had to sit 24 hours to completely dry... it was very tacky until it was fully cured.

                  It was a bit thinner than honey, and flowed out real well. I noticed no change in tone after it was potted.
                  It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                  http://coneyislandguitars.com
                  www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                  Comment

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