Questions About Soundclips

[RedHouse]

...what they are hearing when they listen to professionally made sound clips, as thats not what the pickups are going to sound like when they play them...

I thought about that aspect too for a while, but I came to a different conclusion.

Listening to the instrument w/o the other instruments (ie; rest of the band) is also not "what the pickups are going to sound like when they play them" ...live.

I made my soundclips as tracks over the top of (public/free) backing tracks, then, also posted isolated clips from those tracks so one can hear both what they sound like on their own, and in a mix.

Sound Clips

Ok so my playing is "rusty" (sorry) I have not played with a band since 1988, but it gets the point across. The sound/tone of an instrument by itself is not the "whole picture" as the sound with other instruments sometimes demonstrates.

Case in point, those Sgt Pepper tracks that are floating around on the internet, geez check out the tone of the guitars (and bass for that matter) you might never have guessed they would sound like that in a band mix, but they do sound good in the mix, and maybe not so good alone.

(PS, a couple (of my) clips have some weird volume drop outs, I'm trying to fix that)

[John Carlsen]

You know in my experience, I have really appreciated it when people mic their amps dry, and in such a way as it would sound very similar to how it would sound if I was in the room listening. There's not much that drives me more crazy than pickup demos with tons of effects or with an sm57 jammed right into the grill. My preferred (and most honest-sounding to my ears) is to use a good large diaphragm condenser that can handle higher spl levels, and set it up off axis a little, but a couple of feet away. This gives me the closest sound to what I hear in the room. Do yourself a favor and go listen to some of Jason Lollar's clips on his site. they arent "produced," use effects or even sound very pretty, but he uses gear that everyone knows and I can really hear the tone of the pickups and how they interact with the amp. If you really want to have your customers hear your pickups, and you aren't trying to hide something try to use the same amp settings and recording settings for every test. I understand about styles and all that, but if you use different gear no one will really know how they sound. Since every piece of gear people use is different, the only way to really hear differences is by comparisons to stock pickups or to your other models. If it needs to be more bluesy, then keep the same settings and turn the volume up. After all, style is how you play, not playing the same thing with a different amp. The best examples I've seen of this are Lollar's site and Seymour Duncan's site. Do yourself a favor and chck them out and pay attention to what they do, unless, like I said, you're trying to hide what they really sound like.

[RedHouse]

If that's intended for me John, you should probably know that my sound clips are dual-purpose.

I'm not the typical pickup maker, I sell pickups, and amps, and univibe pedals, reverb units, etc. Unlike you my customers want to hear "the package".
YMMV

[David Schwab]

... or with an sm57 jammed right into the grill.

That's the classic Van Halen tone.

[John Carlsen]

That's the classic Van Halen tone.

doesn't really do much to show people how a pickup actually sounds though...

[John Carlsen]

If that's intended for me John, you should probably know that my sound clips are dual-purpose.

I'm not the typical pickup maker, I sell pickups, and amps, and univibe pedals, reverb units, etc. Unlike you my customers want to hear "the package".
YMMV

Sorry, no that wasn't intended for you. No criticism intended for you at all, just general info. I totally understand with a company like yours that makes all different kinds of gear, it would make sense. The difference is that you still use all YOUR stuff and don't try to mix or master your way out of what your stuff actually sounds like. That's all I was trying to say. If a guy, like me, only makes pickups, I can see why someone would have a desire to use all kinds of different gear to get different types of sound and such, but I feel like that does a disservice to the customer because they won't have a reference for what the pickups sound like other than that they sound "pretty" because of all the different gear used. I hope what I'm saying makes sense. Not trying to bash anyone, just pointing out what I see. That's why I used Duncan and Lollar as examples because the gear they use and their clips show continuity so a customer can really get a sense of what each pickup does compared to other models.

[David Schwab]

doesn't really do much to show people how a pickup actually sounds though...

No, it's the pickup/guitar/amp tone.

I do all my clips direct, and for guitar pickups use an amp modeler. I'm going more for how a guitar might sound on a recording, than in a live situation.

My standard amp model is a clean Fender Twin.

But it does give someone an idea how the pickup will sound in actual playing situations.

[ken]

You know in my experience, I have really appreciated it when people mic their amps dry, and in such a way as it would sound very similar to how it would sound if I was in the room listening. There's not much that drives me more crazy than pickup demos with tons of effects or with an sm57 jammed right into the grill. My preferred (and most honest-sounding to my ears) is to use a good large diaphragm condenser that can handle higher spl levels, and set it up off axis a little, but a couple of feet away. This gives me the closest sound to what I hear in the room

If the room you have to record in has horrible acoustics, what do you do then?

ken

[John Carlsen]

If the room you have to record in has horrible acoustics, what do you do then?

ken

I don't really worry about it because if the goal is to get a sound that is similar to what most other people would hear in their room, then chances are, the acoustics are just as crappy everywhere else as they are in my room. If you're worried about it, you could always push the mic closer so you don't get as much of the room. I'm just trying to be as realistic to the average Joe as I can. If they wanted a close-mic'd sound with a band or something, I would do that, but this is my default.

[RedHouse]

...because if the goal is to get a sound that is similar to what most other people would hear in their room...

That's not my goal.

In my experience most (pro's) know it's way more important to hear the equipment in the setting it is to be used, with the other instruments. Having an instrument that sounds good by itself "in the room" but gets lost in the "din" when the band plays is nearly useless on a stage.

I'm not saying the "in the room" aspect is un-important, but it's only the first pass, not the critical pass, but on the other hand for the home-joe guitar guy it's all about how it sounds "in the room". Many professionals won't buy stuff unless they can test drive the gear, in action, on the stage or at least in rehersal with their band.

[David Schwab]

If the room you have to record in has horrible acoustics, what do you do then?

I spend enough time in recording studios to be able to answer this... You close mic the cab! Just about every recording of a guitar amp is done this way. The only time they will use room ambiance is when the room sounds good. But you can run into phase cancelation issues that way too. Most of the time artificial reverberation is used, or they reamp the signal in a room made for it. That goes you more control over the final sound. If you record a room sound, you are stuck with it.

A lot of rock recordings are done with isolation cabinets; with a single speaker sealed inside a small box, with the mic on the inside. That way they can crank the amp.



I wouldn't want to hear any room sound on a pickup clip. It's too smeary, and you get notch filtering. I like a dryer, more direct tone. Same reason why you don't want to smother it in effects.

[David Schwab]

I don't really worry about it because if the goal is to get a sound that is similar to what most other people would hear in their room, then chances are, the acoustics are just as crappy everywhere else as they are in my room.

I disagree. You don't get a tone like that at home, do you? You want a tone you enjoy.

Most people will agree their amp sounds like crap in many clubs, but sounds good at home or in a studio. They want to hear the best case, not worst case tone.

[John Carlsen]

If I had the money, I'd love to use one of those Iso cabs. That would be great. My recording room is very dead, so it usually isn't an issue. I agree though, pickup demos with tons of effects don't really show you how the pickup sounds.

David, have you ever tried the Rivera Silent Sister iso cab? From what I've heard, it sounds amazing, but would love to get a personal opinion.

[David Schwab]

If I had the money, I'd love to use one of those Iso cabs. That would be great. My recording room is very dead, so it usually isn't an issue. I agree though, pickup demos with tons of effects don't really show you how the pickup sounds.

David, have you ever tried the Rivera Silent Sister iso cab? From what I've heard, it sounds amazing, but would love to get a personal opinion.

No, I never tired one, but I know people that used them. Last time I was in the studio, the guitarist bright in about a half dozen cabs and three Marshall heads! I wasn't there that day though.

At home I record everything direct and use amp modelers. I have one in my Roland VM-3100Pro digital mixer that gets sound good sounds. I also have the IK Multimedia Amplitube plugin, PodFarm, Eleven in ProTools and another one in Cubase. Between them I can get very good recorded guitar tones. The only guitar amp I own is a little Crate amp. I used to mic that up, but since I record in an apartment, it makes more sense to use amp modelers.

[ken]

I'm looking for a good blueprint for an isolation cab. I really like the idea of the controlled recording environment it offers, but I also keep reading horror stories about iso cabs being 'boxy' and blowing speakers. I'm going to build one anyway.

ken