Fitting one pickup into another mount: preserve height or shape?

[Kindly Killer]

I am remaking a wider pickup to fit in a narrower mount. Should I preserve the height of the original, or scale the whole thing down?

I am trying to preserve the sound of the original as closely as possible. I am taking pains to keep everything but the width the same.

Another way to say it: which changes the resulting timbre more - changing one dimension or changing two?

[Mike Sulzer]

I am remaking a wider pickup to fit in a narrower mount. Should I preserve the height of the original, or scale the whole thing down?

I am trying to preserve the sound of the original as closely as possible. I am taking pains to keep everything but the width the same.

Another way to say it: which changes the resulting timbre more - changing one dimension or changing two?

You are going to have fewer turns (unless you use a finer wire, which would lead to other changes). So you can expect a lower output. Also a lower inductance, leading to a higher resonant frequency. To minimize this, you want to preserve the height, not make it smaller.

[David Schwab]

I make a humbucker for bass that fits into standard soap bar cases. Then I wanted to do a version for Jazz basses, which is obviously a much narrower case. So I essentially shrunk down the pickup. The length was the same, as well as the height. I use thinner blades and obviously the bobbins were narrower. Then I wound it almost the same as the larger version. I could not fit as much wire, without making it hard to fit in the case, so I went with as much as I could fit, which was about 400-500 turns less on each coil. I used the same gauge wire (42).

They have a very similar tone to the full size version. Because the aperture is narrower, they have a tighter tone, with a little more mids, and the low end isn't as deep. So it's a little more like a single coil, kind of the way the Strat size dual rails are somewhere between a single coil and a humbucker. Clearly they are very narrow pickups, so if you went a little wider they would sound more like the full size counterparts. You can also adjust your winding to get the voicing close.

[Mike Sulzer]

I make a humbucker for bass that fits into standard soap bar cases. Then I wanted to do a version for Jazz basses, which is obviously a much narrower case. So I essentially shrunk down the pickup. The length was the same, as well as the height. I use thinner blades and obviously the bobbins were narrower. Then I would it almost the same as the larger version. I could not fit as much wire, without making it hard to fit in the case, so I went with as much as I could fit, which was about 400 turns less on each coil. I used the same gauge wire (42).

They have a very similar tone to the full size version. Because the aperture is narrower, they have a tighter tone, with a little more mids, and the low end isn't as deep. So it's a little more like a single coil, kind of the way the Strat size dual rails are somewhere between a single coil and a humbucker. Clearly they are very narrow pickups, so if you went a little wider they would sound more like the full size counterparts. You can also adjust your winding to get the voicing close.

I wonder how much of the difference in tone with the thinner blades is a result of decreased eddy currents?

[David Schwab]

I wonder how much of the difference in tone with the thinner blades is a result of decreased eddy currents?

I wondered that too. I had tried making a larger pickup with thinner blades, but I also used 44 gauge wire. It surprisingly sounded very close to the original version. I should have changed one thing at a time, but I was trying to go for a certain tone. I think it was a little brighter, from what I remember. The upper mids were a little different. It's hard to describe tone, but they sounded a bit different in the upper frequencies.

I plan on revisiting this idea, and also laminating two of the thinner blades together.

[Kindly Killer]

Okay thanks for all info.

I guess I actually meant shorter, not narrower. I.e. like narrower string spacing - or the distance available in which to mount the thing. Do you call that shorter? E.g. a four string jazz pickup is shorter than a five? That axis is the length?

Anyway, I made a pair of Charlie Christian style pickups for my L5 styled plywood archtop. I got dimensions from the patent and just shrank the length to get the biggest thing I could cram in a humbucker hole. It's held together with silicone glue LOL. I think the sound is probably as good as it's going to get for this guitar. It would probably be a tiny bit closer if I did everything right - exact dimensions and mounting style - but if I need the sound of a real ES-150 through its matched amp, the next step would probably be to build a new guitar.

So I'm happy with what I did. It's miles better for jazz than the PAF style humbuckers I had in there. It has all the basic characteristics of the old Charlie Christian records - except for genius... It used to sound like a rockin 335, even with TI flats - I guess because of plywood construction? - but now at least it sounds like a jazz guitar.

Again, thanks for all help.

[Steve Conner]

Sounds like a cool project! But if you shrank a Charlie Christian pickup to fit in a regular mounting hole, wouldn't you basically end up with a P-90 or Seymour Duncan Phat Cat, just with a blade instead of screws?

[Kindly Killer]

Yeah I guess the concept is similar, but different details. The bobbin is 5/8" high, and the blade is 1/8" thick. I used A2 bar mags. Maybe I'm listening with my eyes, but to me the ones I made sound closer to CC than P-90. It's got that controlled attack of the originals that is so nice - lets you shape a line without pussyfooting around the strings as with a strat, where you get a big nasty KKKKLANG on the front of each sound if you're not careful.

[David Schwab]

I guess I actually meant shorter, not narrower. I.e. like narrower string spacing - or the distance available in which to mount the thing. Do you call that shorter? E.g. a four string jazz pickup is shorter than a five? That axis is the length?

Yes, that would be length. Width is the other dimension. A shorter coil has shorter turns, so with the same number of turns you have less wire wound on it.

I make the same pickups in 4, 5, and 6 string bass lengths. When I first started making them I tried it both ways, either all the same number of turns, or wound to compensate for the difference. It made a slight difference in tone, but it was so small I stuck with the same number of turns. But I could see for some designs where you might want to adjust the turns for the size.