Outer & Inner Diameter Specs of Various Wire Question

[Telemachos]

Hi everybody,
my first post in this forum. Glad having found this interesting site. I started to wind pick ups as a hobby and for local musicians in the early 80ies but during the past years since then I have been wiring pick ups only occasionally. I still have two big spools of Elektrisola wire. The tag says 0.063 diameter @ 0,072 outer diameter.
Since I see people ranting about the various different insulators such as heavy formwar and plain enamel, I wonder what those specs are. As far as I understand it HF is said to have a thinner insulation than PE. Can s.o. shed a light on what specs. we're looking at? I'd like to find out how close my wire is to the orig. heavy formwar wire.
Also, is there any cognition or a consensus about how different HF sounds to PE or modern poly coated insulation?
Thank you for your time

[salvarsan]

0.063 and 0.072 are bare wire and insulated diameters.
Divide the numbers by 25.4 to get the diameters.

It's equivalent to AWG 42 whose insulation is between a single and heavy build in thickness.

[Telemachos]

I quite don't understand or maybe I might have been misleading in my first post.
Each spool reads two numbers on its' tag. One is the outer and the other one is the effective diameter of the wire. From my understanding the resulting difference would be 0.009. As this is a diameter number, this would have to be devided by 2 in order to figure the insulation thickness. Insulation thickness of this particular wire would be 0.0045.

Now, my question is: Does this figure resemble the insulation thickness of heavy formwar wire or plain enamel? What is the heavy formwar insulation thickness in numbers and how thick in numbers is the plain enamel insulation?

[big_teee]

those numbers are in mm.
You have to convert to inches.
063mm = 0.00248031 inches
I think that is what your asking?
I mic the outside, and measure the ohms of 10ft to get the Idea of ID.
Found the spool numbers, may not match the wire micd size.
It can be larger or smaller than your mic'd numbers.
T

[salvarsan]

Does this figure resemble the insulation thickness of heavy formwar wire or plain enamel? What is the heavy formwar insulation thickness in numbers and how thick in numbers is the plain enamel insulation?

Insulation thickness is the supposedly the same for all films by accord with industrial standards NEMA-1000 in the US, IEC 60317 in Europe.
That is to say that a single build of one film is as thick as another.

http://www.elektrisola.com/enamelled-wire/

However, there are batch variations in manufacture.
The nominal 0.063mm bare wire and 0.072mm outer diameter specs class the wire either as a skinny 42 AWG single build or a 42.5 AWG heavy build since it is within specification for both of those.

P155 means that the insulation film is solderable polyurethane tested to 155 degrees C.

Elektrisola provides a convenient chart for interconversion between metric and AWG.
NEMA MW1000C metric

[Telemachos]

those numbers are in mm.
You have to convert to inches.
063mm = 0.00248031 inches
I think that is what your asking?
....T

Thanks Terry, but that's not what I'm trieing to find out. I'm trieing to find out what the insulation thickness is with heavy formwar wire AND of plain enamel wether it's in mm or inch. I've been occasionally reading comments of winders who claim, that poly insulated wire would not sound authentic to thew heavy formwar wire due its' different insulation thickness. Since this seems to be an issiue for them, I wonder that no one has ever cared about dokumenting the thickness of the various wire types. Maybe I haven't come across the comment yet that lists hard bone facts such as thickness numbers, I dunno. How can one claim s.th. like that w/o knowing what the insulation coating thikness is?

The spool I have oictured does give you precise numbers, but I couldn't find this kind of information on the wire manufacturers web site. I'm in the process of winding me an other bridge PU for my Tele which preferably feature heavy formwar specs. So I'm somewhat undecided wether or not I should use the wire I already have instead of painstakingly search for heavy formwar wire.

[Telemachos]

Excellent info. So did I get it right that you're saying that the insolation thickness of my wire is the same as what you find on heavy formwar wire? If so, then I wonder how some people claim to hear a sonic difference between a PU wound w. heavy formwar and an other one wound with poly wire.

[big_teee]

This came from MWS search site, headings don't line up, but you get the idea.
Copper Wire Manufacturer, Specialty Wire Manufacturer
This is bare wire.
AWG Bare Min. Bare Nom. Bare Max. DCR Min. DCR Nom. DCR Max. cmils feet per lb
42 0.0024 0.0025 0.0026 1534 1659 1801 6.25 52900
This is coated wire.
Insulation Build Insulated Min. Insulated Nom. Insulated Max. Film Increase Min. Feet per LB.
Single 0.0026 0.0028 0.0030 0.0002 50940
Heavy 0.0028 0.0030 0.0032 0.0004 49600
Triple 0.0030 0.0032 0.0035 0.0007 48260
Quad 0.0032 0.0034 0.0036 46920

[salvarsan]

Excellent info. So did I get it right that you're saying that the insolation thickness of my wire is the same as what you find on heavy formwar wire? If so, then I wonder how some people claim to hear a sonic difference between a PU wound w. heavy formwar and an other one wound with poly wire.

If you wound with heavy build poly, the sonic differences would be small. The insulation film thickness has the most influence on sound and its dielectric constant is next. With experience, some builders reliably distinguish between pickups wound with different single build insulations.

[Telemachos]

So, according to the Elektrisola charts as I read them and according to you my wire is a skinny single built wire. Right? Now here's the my main question. What does a heavy formwar wire look like? Does heavy mean that it has a thicker insolation? And how do the charts read on heavy formwar in this regard? I need to know if my wire's specs are close enough to heavy formwar.

[Telemachos]

..Does heavy mean that it has a thicker insolation? .....

I was meaning thicker insolation than on what I currently have on my spool.

[Telemachos]

This came from MWS search site, headings don't line up, but you get the idea.
Copper Wire Manufacturer, Specialty Wire Manufacturer
This is bare wire.
AWG Bare Min. Bare Nom. Bare Max. DCR Min. DCR Nom. DCR Max. cmils feet per lb
42 0.0024 0.0025 0.0026 1534 1659 1801 6.25 52900
This is coated wire.
Insulation Build Insulated Min. Insulated Nom. Insulated Max. Film Increase Min. Feet per LB.
Single 0.0026 0.0028 0.0030 0.0002 50940
Heavy 0.0028 0.0030 0.0032 0.0004 49600
Triple 0.0030 0.0032 0.0035 0.0007 48260
Quad 0.0032 0.0034 0.0036 46920

O.K. Now I think I understand. According to this chart my wire is not specified as heavy since heavy is min. 0.0028 and up. Thanx for your effort.

[big_teee]

I think you got it.
One final note on heavy build.
I use HPN instead of HFV for Single coils.
I like it, others may prefer HFV.
For the cost difference I will stick with HPN.
I use this.
42 AWG Heavy Enameled Copper Magnet Wire Details | Remington Industries
Good Luck,
Terry

[Telemachos]

I think you got it.
One final note on heavy build.
I use HPN instead of HFV for Single coils.
I like it, others may prefer HFV.
For the cost difference I will stick with HPN.
I use this.
42 AWG Heavy Enameled Copper Magnet Wire Details | Remington Industries
Good Luck,
Terry

What do you soundwise like about this wire better over the HFV?

And does a wire w. a thicker insulation film produce more highs than a wire being all else equal except of a thinner insulation?

[David Schwab]

What do you soundwise like about this wire better over the HFV?

They should sound the same, and the heavy poly will be cheaper. Formvar doesn't have a particular tone.