Coil is Warping / Deforming the Forbon Fiber

[big_teee]

Some Top forbon has a natural bend or warpage to it to start with.
I straighten it out the best I can.
If not real flat, turn the natural curve down toward the inside.
That way the wire is pushing against the natural curve.
I do the thin CA like D. K. does.
Some old fender pickups, were wound with more wire toward the bottom and less toward the top.
That was probably because of the flaring issues.
T

[David King]

What Terry says! I was going to say that but I didn't have all the words at the ready. You want the forbon bias working for you.
I just realized that you are probably working with 1/16" thick forbon and not the 3/32" stuff. That stuff is like a wet noodle compared to the 3/32".

[copperheadroads]

I always clean my magnets with naphtha before installing ,there is some sort of grease or something on them from the manufacturing process that can definitely prevent CA from holding ...just handle a hand full of rod magnets ,it gets your hands a little dirty

[verhoevenc]

OK, it's definitely ME that's doing it. And I really don't know how to fix this because I've tried everything recommended. I just did the SAME amount of warping to the tele neck pickup bobbin pre-assembled by mojotone. So it's not my assembly that's the issue.
Ugh, I have no clue what to do?!
Chris

[David Schwab]

OK, it's definitely ME that's doing it. And I really don't know how to fix this because I've tried everything recommended. I just did the SAME amount of warping to the tele neck pickup bobbin pre-assembled by mojotone. So it's not my assembly that's the issue.
Ugh, I have no clue what to do?!
Chris

Did you set your wire guides in closer? Are you using wire guides? If not, don't wind all the way to either edge. You want to pile up more wire in the middle, not the edges. Also maybe you are using too much tension. Don't hold the wire so tight, and slow down your winding speed, and see what you get.

[verhoevenc]

Alright. So all the things I've been told to try, I threw into one pot, plus one new thing (the glove, I hadn't tried that until now). Previously I had done suggestions 1 at a time. Good news? I ended up with a non-warped bobbin. Bad news is I'm not sure what led to my victory, so I have a bunch more wire to waste and experiments to run. Here's what I did this time:
1- Slowed down to a winding speed that I would consider "boring."
2- Wore a wool glove.
3- I discovered (somehow?!) that setting the wire guides at the start while rotating the shaft by hand doesn't always equate to the same distances when stuff is spinning. Moreover, it seems to change SLIGHTLY throughout the process. I'm chocking this up to the thick(ish) double-stick tape I was using.
Now I gotta go back and try all this stuff one by one. Hopefully JUST the glove works, because I'm going to hate winding if it's always at the speed I just had to use.

I will say though, I'm a little torn with how this bobbin FEELS. It has some "squish" to it when you squeeze the windings. A decent bit more than my warped bobbins. Should I be fearful of microphonic feedback now??? (Don't have a guitar to test these in just yet). Also, I put 9200 winds of 42AWG SPN on this Jaguar bobbin. Considering vintage correct is 8000, and I'm not that close to "overloading" the bobbin and winding off the edge.... it makes me think the opposite: that I'm just fine with this new tension level. Or am I wrong in thinking that if I put 1200 winds more than vintage-correct that 'loose windings' would be overflowing by then?
Thoughts?
Chris

[David Schwab]

Always change one thing at a time!

To set the wire guides; set them by eye, and then by hand turn the winder and see where the wire is wrapping. You want it a little distance in from the flatwork. I made marks on the bar that my guides slide on, so I can set them for the different size bobbins I use.

You want to wind fast, but not too fast. Takes me maybe 8-10 minutes to wind a coil, counting soldering the leads and mounting and unmounting. Is that boring? You bet it is! Try doing it for several hours at a stretch. But i find winding too fast doesn't give me very good results.

Now that your guides are set, try increasing the speed a little and see what you get.

I use my bare fingers, unless I'm winding fast enough to burn my fingers, which hasn't happened in a while. But I also have major calluses on my right index finger from playing bass.

[David King]

I find that my hands start to sweat when I get bored so the tension goes up and becomes difficult to control.
A little "squish" to the coil on the sides is just right actually as long as the wire isn't hanging off the edges. Once you pot it in wax and put a couple of turns of teflon plumber's tape over it it'll never feed back.

If you have more room than you expected on your bobbins then I'd be concerned about accurate counts. Never wound a Jag so i have no idea what looks right.

I know a lot of folks recommend the double stick tape but I don't like the creeping you get with most of that stuff. At the very least use a 3M transfer tape like #987 that's 2 mils or less thick. You only need the tiniest patches at the ends of the bobbin. Better yet build a tailstock for your winder

[David Schwab]

I find that my hands start to sweat when I get bored so the tension goes up and becomes difficult to control.
A little "squish" to the coil on the sides is just right actually as long as the wire isn't hanging off the edges. Once you pot it in wax and put a couple of turns of teflon plumber's tape over it it'll never feed back.

If you have more room than you expected on your bobbins then I'd be concerned about accurate counts. Never wound a Jag so i have no idea what looks right.

I know a lot of folks recommend the double stick tape but I don't like the creeping you get with most of that stuff. At the very least use a 3M transfer tape like #987 that's 2 mils or less thick. You only need the tiniest patches at the ends of the bobbin. Better yet build a tailstock for your winder

Luckily my hands don't sweat.

I use the 3M foam double stick tape. I put a piece down the full length of the bobbin. It lasts maybe 6-8 or so uses and then I have to replace it. I get no creeping or anything.

When I doing Fender style pickups, I have a piece of wood with holes drilled for the magnets, and a hole to mount the bobbin on with a screw. I secure the wood to the winder with the foam tape.

[verhoevenc]

So, I'm one step closer to victory today. I did a tele bridge pickup and it turned out fine. I dropped the slow speed and went back to where I LIKE winding at (which turns out to be about 700-800rpm). So, that means now it's only one of two things causing the issue:
1- It was the tension and the glove is my solution.
2- This was a fluke since tele bridge pickups use all thick forbon for both top and bottom.
Hoping to re-do the first warped jaguar pickup tomorrow and put the final issue to rest. However, I fully expect the glove to be the solution now.
Chris

New tele bridge: 9137 42AWG SPN- 7.22k

[verhoevenc]

OK, this is just getting ridiculous now! I finally seem to have gotten it down pat with 42AWG... now I switch over to do the tele neck with 43AWG and BAM right back to problems, this time on the other end of the spectrum. So now I'm stuck with overly loose windings with the glove and 43AWG, and overly tight (deforming) windings if I take the glove off with 43AWG. I'm assume ya'll all agree that this is mad loose! Click to play video:

Chris

Edit: Did everyone else go through this when learning single coils? I never would have DREAMED single-coils were so much harder than humbuckers?!

[David King]

With the glove on you can hook the wire over your ring finger and add a little more tension with you middle finger and pinky. I'd suggest that you go to a felt tensioner when you get a chance if you don't like burning up a pound or two of wire while you get the hang of it. Dremel buffing pads are decent felt disks or if you know a piano tech they can hook you up with hundreds.

[kayakerca]

I use this style heavy piano felts as the contact surface of my tensioner. They are a little more expensive than the thinner felts, but they work great !

Piano Backcheck Felt for Vertical Pianos | eBay

Of course once you add a tensioner, you'll be needing to set it up accurately and reproducibly, so you'll need one of these baby's next.

Dynamometer: 0 - 50 Grams

You could just forgo both of the above and go straight for the real deal!

Azonic Wire Tensioner

There's no end to the acquirable toys of this business (or hobby as the case may be). Or you can do as David suggests and blow a couple pounds of wire developing feel and calluses.

[David Schwab]

So now I'm stuck with overly loose windings with the glove and 43AWG...

That looks like a nicely wound coil. Two things; did you move your guides in from the edge enough? Doesn't look like it. You never commented if you did that. You only talked about speed and a glove. To me it looks like you are winding too close to the flatwork.

Secondly, before you start pushing the wire around like that, wax pot it. That will make it nice and solid. Some of my coils are a little lose like that, but I tape them up first, and then wax pot them. Now if you are going to say that Fender doesn't tape their coils up, I have to ask why that matters?

[verhoevenc]

I have moved my wire guides in. The reason it was going over the edge like that is I had 9000 turns of super loose winding on a tele neck pickup bobbin. It was literally overflowing by that point :P
I think I may try to mess around with a tensioner... after perhaps a break... learning this stuff can get taxing at times with all the failure :P
Chris