Magnet Preferences for Tele bridge and neck pickups

[thegreatwent]

Hello everybody!

I was wondering what some of your magnet diameter, height, and coil height preferences might be when it comes to making Tele pickups.

I made a bunch of .187 diameter .630 height Tele pickups and I was trying to get close to the tone of one of my favorite pickups made by a popular winder and was getting close but just couldn't seem to nail it.
Only after making a few did I get around to measuring the diameter of the original and it was .195 and not .187.

The .187's seemed to have a kind of a nasal quality to them whereas the .195's have an openness and clarity to them.
I wound a .195 A5 bridge but with a taller magnet and it had more of that openness, but it was noticeably brighter, I'm assuming, due to the taller coil height.
I'm waiting on some .195 flatwork to wind some .630 A5's I have and see if I can't get it to turn out like that sound I have in my head - tight but full bass, enough mids to push an amp and will still twang like a good tele pickup should but still remaining open and clear/articulate.

It seems the bridge pickups that I tend to favor use .195 A5 or A3 magnets.

I'd be curious to know what someone like Lollar uses for his A5's. Not sure if it's appropriate to ask as it seems people are pretty guarded about divulging certain information, and if this post offends anyone I'm sorry. Just trying to learn as much as I can.

As far as neck pickups go, I've been winding .187 A5's and that seems to work pretty well for the neck.
I tend to favor a more stratty, brighter and woody tone in the neck and the .187 A5 seems to work fine for that.
Still experimenting with the height as I'm using 42 AWG poly and I was having a hard time getting much past 5k with my first couple of builds and have run out of room before reaching my target DC on shorter coil heights.
The last one I made, around 6.8k, using .710 height A5 with about .510 between the flats is sounding pretty sweet so far. Maybe a bit too hot. Thinking about making another around between 6.2k and 6.4k - that should hopefully get me where I want it.

I'd like to know what you guys think and you're experiences. What combinations are using and what kinds of sounds/results are you getting.

[big_teee]

Here's a link to the Stagger PDF listed on the Beginners Corner.
http://music-electronics-forum.com/a...magstagger.pdf
I make most of mine with magnets of same length, but raised a little above the flatwork.
Here is the pre assembled bobbins sold by mojo.
http://www.mojotone.com/core/media/m...1dba4e3f436b05

[David Schwab]

As far as neck pickups go, I've been winding .187 A5's and that seems to work pretty well for the neck.
I tend to favor a more stratty, brighter and woody tone in the neck and the .187 A5 seems to work fine for that.
Still experimenting with the height as I'm using 42 AWG poly and I was having a hard time getting much past 5k with my first couple of builds and have run out of room before reaching my target DC on shorter coil heights.
The last one I made, around 6.8k, using .710 height A5 with about .510 between the flats is sounding pretty sweet so far. Maybe a bit too hot. Thinking about making another around between 6.2k and 6.4k - that should hopefully get me where I want it.

I'd like to know what you guys think and you're experiences. What combinations are using and what kinds of sounds/results are you getting.

I find 5.5k makes a real nice sounding single coil neck pickup.

[thegreatwent]

Thanks for the info guys!

I also found this - http://music-electronics-forum.com/a...pediaspecs.pdf
Does the "Core Height" column correspond the measurement I'm talking about? What is the standard term for the measurement of the actual coil height between inner top and bottom flanges?

I've used Mojotones pre-made A3 bobbins and one of them has turned out to be one of my favorite pickups. A 7.7k with plain enamel. Curious as to how/why they chose to use those measurements.

big_teee, David, what have you guys used for your tele builds?

I'm finding that I like the warmth and low end of the .630 height magnets, it's just difficult at times to get the DC up to where I want/need it because I run out of room, especially with the 42 AWG plain enamel I have because it's thicker than the poly I have.

If I were to use taller magnets, could I try and counter the brightness the additional height brings by using 43 AWG wire?

[Stratz]

Which style/brand bridge and saddles are you using?
Theres quite a difference in the acoustic sound between the 3 saddle and 6 saddle bridges. Magnetic (ferrous) bridge plates also have more of an effect on the sound as you raise or lower the pickup. Especially the AshTray style bridge plates.

[soundmasterg]

The vintage Tele pickups used 43 gauge on the neck pickup, so if those are the sounds you are going for, you may want to try that.

Greg

[David Schwab]

Theres quite a difference in the acoustic sound between the 3 saddle and 6 saddle bridges.

Yes, in that the 3 saddle bridges don't play in tune! Do the vintage style 6 saddle bridges use brass saddles? My Tele style guitar uses a modern brass Gotoh 6 saddle bridge, but it's not really a vintage style Tele, and doesn't really sound like one.

Magnetic (ferrous) bridge plates also have more of an effect on the sound as you raise or lower the pickup. Especially the AshTray style bridge plates.

The steel bridge plate is a very important part of the Tele tone.

thegreatwent, I don't make Tele pickups.

[Stratz]

Yes, in that the 3 saddle bridges don't play in tune! Do the vintage style 6 saddle bridges use brass saddles? My Tele style guitar uses a modern brass Gotoh 6 saddle bridge, but it's not really a vintage style Tele, and doesn't really sound like one.




The steel bridge plate is a very important part of the Tele tone.

thegreatwent, I don't make Tele pickups.

The three saddle "compensated" bridges will intonate extremely well but there can still be a compromise.
Both the three and six style bridges can be loaded with quite a few different materials for the saddles including brass, various grades of steel, graphite and aluminum.

From my experience the thickness of the steel which the bridge plate is made from has the most effect on the acoustic tone. I have 3 Tele's and the bridge plates range in thickness from ~.045" - ~.095". To my ear the thinner bridge plates produce more of the familiar vintage Tele snap or spank.

I like the sound of traditional single coil Tele bridge pickups. I like the neck pickup tone a lot too if it's built a certain way. Very much like a Strat neck tone but with a lot more growl.

Very versatile guitars with a long and interesting history.

[Telemachos]

............ To my ear the thinner bridge plates produce more of the familiar vintage Tele snap or spank............

That's how I hear it too

[madzub]

The three saddle "compensated" bridges will intonate extremely well but there can still be a compromise.
Both the three and six style bridges can be loaded with quite a few different materials for the saddles including brass, various grades of steel, graphite and aluminum.

It's super easy to compensate brass or aluminum barrel saddles yourself, they file easily so you can tweak them to make them intonate perfectly.

[Stratz]

It's super easy to compensate brass or aluminum barrel saddles yourself, they file easily so you can tweak them to make them intonate perfectly.

This is interesting but I'm trying to picture how one would file them in such a way to change the position (distance from bridge to nut) where the string rests on the top of the saddle.

[thegreatwent]

The three saddle bridges intonate fine if you use this method - Saddle Up Your Telecaster® - By Jerry Donahue - Seymour Duncan Tech Tips

I've also tried Callaham and Glendale compensated saddles and they worked well, but I've found that since setting up my intonation with the standard non-compensated saddles as per Jerry Donahue's instructions, intonation hasn't been an issue.

[Stratz]

The three saddle bridges intonate fine if you use this method - Saddle Up Your Telecaster® - By Jerry Donahue - Seymour Duncan Tech Tips

I've read about the JD intonation method before but just like a lot of things, I've never got around to trying it.

[madzub]

That JD method doesn't make much sense. Certain tones will be in tune but others will be out depending on what chord/key you're playing; that deals more with the issue of temperament rather than guitar intonation.... very different things, and it still doesn't deal with it well.

Take a look at these saddles. You can file your round barrel saddles something like this, and you can adjust the location of the break point to get perfect intonation.

[thegreatwent]

This does indeed deal with intonation - "We asked "Bendmaster of the Telecaster" Jerry Donahue to share some of his secrets for setting up a Telecaster® bridge and keeping it properly intonated"

madzub - have you actually tried it? Perhaps you weren't setting it up properly.

I've set my teles up this way for years and not had any issues. The low E tends to go slightly out as you go up the neck, but it is more noticeable when playing chords, but in those registers is less an issue because I don't typically play chords that would be affected up that high.

Other players that play traditionally set up Teles without any issues that I can hear are Jim Campilongo, Jim Weider, Vince Gill, Brad Paisley...to name just a few.

I've got a couple of Baja Teles set up with the stock bridges using this method and they sound great..people often play my guitars and remark how well they play and how well intonated they are.

I love that the Tele/Esquire/Broadcaster hasn't changed much since it's release in '50 - especially the Baja teles as they are set up like the originals - three brass saddles, brige plate, vintage tuners, ash bodies and nice chunky necks. They really nailed it the first time.