Mojotone Updates

[big_teee]

A few months ago I was asking Remington if they sold AWG 42 SPN as the I could only find Polyurethane (MW-79-C) on their website and none of the Polyurethane Nylon (NEMA MW80C). Being one of the not totally literate newbie winders, I asked what the difference was between the two. I was told "It is P [that Remington carries] and does not have the nylon overcoat. This is what Elektrisola puts on, Poly and they tell us the reason is that is it higher quality than the PN. They usually put PN on wire sizes 32 and heavier." I was still left wondering what makes the "P" higher quality than "PN" and also I really didn't take it as any kind of an answer. Six months later I'm no smarter as I'm still not sure what the character or property difference is and how it impacts the type of coils we wind and why Polyurethane alone makes a better insulator that Polyurethane Nylon.

Any knowledge to be imparted here would be very much appreciated. I like to learn.

I've used both and can't tell any difference.
Specs are very similar.
You can look up the specs here.
MWS Wire Industries - Magnet Wire Specifications
T

[David King]

They both melt off at 750º?
I have a roll of 42 HAPT and that sh¡† is not ever coming off without a fight.

[kayakerca]

I've used both and can't tell any difference.
Specs are very similar.
You can look up the specs here.
MWS Wire Industries - Magnet Wire Specifications
T

I've been the chart a few times since my emails with Larry, but it doesn't talk about what the pro's and con's are of P vs. PN (actually it doesn't really talk about characteristics of PN at all). Is one coating more flexible or more brittle? Is one coating more resistant to cracking when stretched than the other? Is it that it is just less expensive to apply only a thicker layer of Polyurethane or is Nylon used on top of the Polyurethane because it is less expensive than Polyurethane alone and there are no characteristic/property differences otherwise?

Just the anal in me being curious.

And I know the answer isn't "because that's the way Leo did it."

[Addendum. . .]

We go to a lot of trouble to minimize potential damage to a coil through its lifespan by lacquer dipping once or twice per bobbin and taping bobbins, but never the consider the damage prevention characteristics of something like Polyurethane Nylon over Polyurethane insulation. Or, it just may be that for the application of winding pickups, there is not a single characteristic/property difference between PN and P that could make could make any type of difference in the longevity or performance of the final product.

Again, just curious. . .

[kayakerca]

They pay similar prices to what we buy it for.
So Mojo can't discount the wire any further.
T

Yes, Mojo probably pays pretty much in the same area as winders do for coil wire and they need to price to make a profit too. I do buy most of my stuff from Mojo, but not coil wire. But I also about half the StewMac catalog in my shop and there isn't a lot of crossover in products between the two companies. I find StewMac pretty expensive, but they are a good one-stop-shop in luthier type supplies and tools. That said, StewMac 22 Ga pre-tinned cloth wire is a lot cheaper at StewMac than Mojo if you buy 150' where it is volume priced at $0.32/ft. Mojo on the other hand only gets to the $0.41/ft price after volume of 100' plus which is the low volume price at StewMac. I was surprised as I would have figured that there is nothing that Mojo wouldn't be beating StewMac on in price.

[big_teee]

Yes, Mojo probably pays pretty much in the same area as winders do for coil wire and they need to price to make a profit too. I do buy most of my stuff from Mojo, but not coil wire. But I also about half the StewMac catalog in my shop and there isn't a lot of crossover in products between the two companies. I find StewMac pretty expensive, but they are a good one-stop-shop in luthier type supplies and tools. That said, StewMac 22 Ga pre-tinned cloth wire is a lot cheaper at StewMac than Mojo if you buy 150' where it is volume priced at $0.32/ft. Mojo on the other hand only gets to the $0.41/ft price after volume of 100' plus which is the low volume price at StewMac. I was surprised as I would have figured that there is nothing that Mojo wouldn't be beating StewMac on in price.

That is only partly true my Friend.
The wire at 41 cents/100' is the deluxe pretinned, or stranded wire with pretinned solder.
This wire is given a solder bath before they put on the insulation.
The whole wire is like when you pre solder the end of regular stranded wire.
The standard cloth wire that is not pretinned is cheaper.
It is 35 cents at 100 ft pricing.
I love the pretinned wire, and I pay the difference.
Here is the regular wire.
Mojotone 22-Ga Stranded Cloth Covered
T

[kayakerca]

That is only partly true my Friend.
The wire at 41 cents/100' is the deluxe pretinned, or stranded wire with pretinned solder.
This wire is given a solder bath before they put on the insulation.
The whole wire is like when you pre solder the end of regular stranded wire.
The standard cloth wire that is not pretinned is cheaper.
It is 35 cents at 100 ft pricing.
I love the pretinned wire, and I pay the difference.
Here is the regular wire.
Mojotone 22-Ga Stranded Cloth Covered
T

Not often I can't agree with you Terry. But, the StewMac is pretinned with wax coated cloth as well but it's very seldom I find StewMac has the lowest price on anything, but in their space, they basically carry it all. I'd suggest that it is the exact same wire as the Mojo pretinned wire. I have both downstairs in the shop and I cannot tell them apart (and that's with the old guy magnifier visor ) . I also love the pretinned and have no problem paying the difference.

STEWMAC.COM : Vintage Push-back Wire - 50 feet

[big_teee]

Well maybe mojo will read that here and adjust their prices to compete with Stewmac.
Everything I've bought at Stewmac, is expensive as a rule.
I haven't ordered anything from them in a couple of years.
I actually use more shielded pair than anything.
I have used it on SCs, Humbuckers, and control cavities.
If I only had one wire at my disposal, this one would be my pick.

[David King]

Stewmac does actually do wholesale pricing if you do a lot of volume with them and ask the right person. The wholesale catalogs are different and divided up into instrument groupings. The big savings is on items that Stewmac does in-house or has made for them exclusively. Unfortunately I think you need to hit the $2k/month mark to qualify but that may be per year.

[big_teee]

Stewmac does actually do wholesale pricing if you do a lot of volume with them and ask the right person. The wholesale catalogs are different and divided up into instrument groupings. The big savings is on items that Stewmac does in-house or has made for them exclusively. Unfortunately I think you need to hit the $2k/month mark to qualify but that may be per year.

That's out of my league!
I'm more of a $50-$100 a month kind of guy!
T

[David King]

I'd gladly take any money you have left Terry.

[David Schwab]

I was told "It is P [that Remington carries] and does not have the nylon overcoat. This is what Elektrisola puts on, Poly and they tell us the reason is that is it higher quality than the PN. They usually put PN on wire sizes 32 and heavier."

Hmmmm. They are claiming it's Elektrisola wire. I have a roll here from Remington I have been using this week. I thought it didn't feel like the Elektrisola 42 SPN I get from Bae, which are on Elektrisola spools. It has a grippier feel, almost like Formvar.

One thing I did notice is I got two failed winds so far from this spool, where my usual heating the solder joint up did not burn away the insulation, which is still odd, since my iron is set to 350°C. So it must not be SPN.

[big_teee]

That's one thing I liked about the rem. wire, it solders so easy!
It all sounds better than I play!
T

[David Schwab]

Yeah, but this one is not soldering as easy as the wire from Bae. I discovered this after winding a couple of coils and the start connection was bad. My start wire is buried inside the coil. I had to crank my iron up higher. It's no big deal, but it's not the same Elektrisola wire that Bae sells.

[David King]

I think one reason the nylon got put over the poly was to make it slicker. Unfortunately I don't remember where I read that. I might have just made it up in my brain too. (I could definitely go into politics…)

[David Schwab]

That would make sense, and the wire I get from Bae is not as grabby feeling. They both work fine though. I had to turn the temperature only iron up a little with the Remington wire.