Testing pickups for a custom guitar - but will this work?

[nicholaspaul]

Is it reasonable to expect a really hot pickup further from the strings to sound as good as a weaker pickup close up, if the the volume output is the same? Are there other factors at play other than volume when moving a pickup closer or further from the strings?

[nicholaspaul]

Another point- is it likely that an overwound pickup, with its difference in eq, compensate for an overly bright guitar?

[Peter Naglitsch]

"As good as" is very individual, but if you ask if they are going to sound the same, the answer is no.

If a overwound pickup is going to compensate for a bright guitar I'd say no, but at the same time say that a overwound pickup will most likely complement a bright guitar in a very good way. So really; "yes".

[nicholaspaul]

I realise it's very subjective, and you did a great job of answering, Peter. Thanks! I suppose it doesn't help that I'm trying to foretell what a maple, walnut and Yellowheart solid body is going to sound like. I do expect a little more top end than usual, which is what I like.
The issue is really that I'm trying to decide between hiding the pickups under flat covers, parallel to the body, and installing as usual. I want a discrete, almost stealth look to the pickups so large, flat wood covers wood blend in well. But that means having pickups with more power (overwound) to give a good level of signal at about 10mm-15mm from the strings. The three pickups will be a mini humbucker in the bridge position, single coil in the middle and single coil/rail hybrid in the neck position.

I think some experiments are necessary before I commit myself to the design. I can install pickups in a similar fashion in another guitar and see what difference in tone I get. Any advice Peter?

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
With all of the ideas you have it is very doubtful that anyone has tried exactly the same thing you are proposing. It will all just be trial and error. Just mixing all the different types of pickups you have listed would be a nightmare to control in and of itself. The different types of wood would also add a lot to the problem. There is nothing currently in production to compare it to. Good Luck and please keep us posted!!!

[Peter Naglitsch]

Sounds like an interesting project. I think Taylor have a magnetic pickup embedded in the end of the fretboard (right fellas?) and there have been a few attempts to build an Esquire type Telecaster with a "stelth" neck pikcup hidden beneth the pickguard. I don't know how that Taylor (?) pickup sounds and I have not myself tested the "under pickguard pickup" concept.

I have no first time experience of the actual setup, but this is how I would aproach the build. I would user overwound pickups as it to some extend would counter the greater distance to the strings. I would look at some type of flat responce booster to lift thae output if necesary. But first and most important I would look for a bridge that is lower than usual to get the strings as close to the body as possible, thus minimizing the extra distance between the strings and the pickups. A recessed TOM or other low profile bridge. However that would realy change the way the guitar fplay and feels so it might not be for everyone...

[nicholaspaul]

Thanks Spare. By nightmare to control, do you mean nightmare to predict how they're going to sound? I am looking for something that I can't get off the shelf, but at the same time put together a collection of my favourite sounds in one instrument. Did I also mention it will be chambered and have a 24" scale?

The Fender Marauder had under-pickguard pickups using Neodymium magnets. My concern is that they'll sound too different. Definitely time to experiment.

Peter, the idea of a booster is interesting. I've been looking at Wilkinson trems just to shoot myself in the foot further! I'll probably have to recess it a little, but with a 6mm fingerboard and string action, the saddles resting 10mm off the body should be ok.

I'll let you know how the overwound and lowered pups work in a test guitar

[Leo_Gnardo]

S I think Taylor have a magnetic pickup embedded in the end of the fretboard (right fellas)

Kee-rect. Those that have 'em, there's a cute little pickup "buried" in the wood. The Taylor's I've seen have 5 magnets (leave out the one under the B string.) Coil is so small, it can only be a couple hundred turns, but there it is.

[SpareRibs]

[QUOTE=nicholaspaul;318734]Thanks Spare. By nightmare to control, do you mean nightmare to predict how they're going to sound? I am looking for something that I can't get off the shelf, but at the same time put together a collection of my favourite sounds in one instrument. Did I also mention it will be chambered and have a 24" scale?

Hello,
Each pickup would require different values of pots and caps. Usually the one guitar for all sounds fails as it is a compromise between all of the sounds kinda sounding like what you want, but not quite. Also a lot of the different sounds are dependent on scale length,type of wood used in construction,ect. Maybe you would be better off looking at one of the modeling amps. Those are supposed to give you the different sounds of different guitar and amp setups.

[nicholaspaul]

I see your point but im not trying to replicate vintage tones in a gilmourish.com, fetishistic way. I'm looking for general types of ones, like single coil in the neck position, and incorporating enough other factors in the hope that I will come up with something a bit unique. I lean on serendipity more than precise plans in my designs. I'm just looking for technical assistance here with things like magnet strength.
Oh and I already have a modeling amp.

[nicholaspaul]

I've ordered some neodymium magnets to experiment with stronger magnetic fields to get the pickups further away and still get enough current/volume. Over winding sounds like a bad idea, except for the bridge pickup.
I've already got some neodymium bars and built a single coil but still have yet to wind it. Once my winder is up and running again and build a couple of singles for experiments and let you know what I find.

Spareribs, I've searched around and found a few people who use 500k volume and 250k tone pots for HSS setups. Could that be worth a shot? I've also read that putting a cap in parallel with some pickups can help the mismatching.Do you know anything about this? Can I use one cap per pickup to balance things out? Would they be soldered between the input and the ground of the volume, perchance?

[David King]

Nick,
One thing to keep in mind about most magnetic materials is that their ability to throw their field a certain distance is somewhat proportional to their dimension in the pole orientation.
A skinny round magnet with the poles at the ends of the long dimension will throw further than a flat wide plate with the poles oriented through the thin dimension.
I hope that makes sense. Let's just say the taller the magnet the higher the field will rise above it.

[nicholaspaul]

Good to know, thanks David. I've bought A5 bars that the seller clearly states have polarity in the direction of the width of the bar - typically, the 12mm width. Does that field then get disbursed vertically by the metal bar in a mini humbucker?
Would that also mean that if I used a longer bar, it would be able to 'reach' the strings better than a shorter bar ?

[SpareRibs]

Spareribs, I've searched around and found a few people who use 500k volume and 250k tone pots for HSS setups. Could that be worth a shot? I've also read that putting a cap in parallel with some pickups can help the mismatching.Do you know anything about this? Can I use one cap per pickup to balance things out? Would they be soldered between the input and the ground of the volume, perchance?

Hello,
I just suggested that there are some problems that you may be building into the guitar, such as most single coils function best using 250K pots while humbuckers usually do better with 500K pots. Mixing two or more types of pickups may cause a lot of problems. The HSS guitars you mentioned are probably strat style which tend to sound thinner than the les paul type, so it is not expected to sound exactly like a full blown humbucker.
As far as the cap question, that is a question which has been argued on every forum I have ever read. 50 questions will get you 50 different answers, probably all of them wrong except the one being expressed by the person that is responding to you at that time. So you will never get a concrete answer about that.
One suggestion I would give you is to look at (Guitar Electronics), they have lots of wiring diagrams, they will even do a custom one if you want. I purchased one of their rotary 5 position switches, the instructions were complicated but very understandable.

[nicholaspaul]

Thanks for explaining Spare. Will these issues be more prevalent with volume or tone pots? Is it viable to have two volumes, one for each type?
And what of guitars with split humbuckers?

When we're talking about 'problems' what exactly are we talking about?

Ah yes, I've seen Guitarelectronics. Great site. Buying a circuit might be my best bet really.