Wire gauge tonal differences.

[wizard333]

If you were comparing the same number of turns with the same magnet, only one pickup having 42 vs. the other having 43, or 44, what would you expect to hear? Seems to my ear that as the wire gets smaller, you get less lows/glassy highs and more upper mids, anyone else hear something different?

Given that, I'm wondering what a neck humbucker wound with the same # of turns as say a 7.2k 42ga PAF would sound like given 43 or even 44 ga wire? Seems you might get rid of some mud on a neck bucker that way, or am I crazy? Anyone tried it?

I've messed with 40ga wire no neck PAFs and you definitely open up the highs with the big wire, but the low end doesn't necessarily get any less thumpy. Maybe I'm going the wrong direction, what I want to hear out of a neck bucker is more tight, not necessarily more glass.

[big_teee]

IME coils wound with the same turns of smaller wire will be brighter.
A PAF coil with 5000 turns of 42, 43, & 44 wire all things equal?
The 44 should be the brightest, the coil diameter is the smallest, and 42 the darkest, the coil diameter is the largest.
That is my experience. YMMV.
T

[Mark Hammer]

Keep in mind that wire gauge = space. The same number of turns with a thicker gauge has the outside turns further away from the polepieces.

[wizard333]

How does being a fraction of an inch more farther from the pole piece affect the tone? I can see that on a P90 where you get quite a ways away, but within the confines of a standard bucker bobbin, does it make that much difference?

[copperheadroads]

How does being a fraction of an inch more farther from the pole piece affect the tone? I can see that on a P90 where you get quite a ways away, but within the confines of a standard bucker bobbin, does it make that much difference?

Your Fraction of an inch can actually be 25% or more of the overall coil size when comparing 42,43,44
Common wire diameter
42=.00265"-.0028" common .00265" mws spn
43=.0022" -.0024" my wire .00225' mws spn
44=.0020"-.0021" .0021" other brand
As for comparing the tone of 42 vs 43,44 with all things equal the frequency shifts from the clear big bottom end & clear treble to a deeper darker bottom end & a treble that shifts to midrange so less clarity ..kind a less headroom sort to speak if played through a clean amp .

[wizard333]

So keeping neck PAF level turns but going to thinner wire won't tighten up the bottom end?

[copperheadroads]

Yes but at a cost

[big_teee]

Instead of going to 43 for PAF Neck pickup?
I like higher tpl, less turns of 42, in the 4800 turn range.
I prefer weaker neck pickups, and hotter bridge pickups.
T

[mr fab]

I think rather than try to intellectualise it too much, each gauge of wire will have its own sound on any particular bobbin.

you will find the even though you made a good pickup with one gauge, using the same specs and winding a similar pickup with thinner wire usually will result in something that sounds completely different.

the electrical properties (resistance of the wire) will vary and also number of winds closer in proximity to the magnetised core will change....hence the geometry of the coil itself is different

these factors affect the Q of the pickup and also its character.

there are so many other factors, such as tension...the same tension on thinner wire will stretch it more....tpl, how you charged your magnets... and also I have noticed magnets from different suppliers sound different...... too many variables to just try and simplify it down to one parameter.

[wizard333]

What cost? Can you be more specific?

[wizard333]

I don't care for low wind 42 ga neck buckers, they tend to sound dull and weak under any gain. 40 ga. doesn't seem to have the same issue, but again, I'm looking for something tighter. The 40 ga wound to around 3.1k has nice open and bright top end, and clear bass, just still a bit too much bass.

[ScottA]

Practically, in a guitar, I would think the most significant difference would be the difference in resistance and how the pickup interacts with the controls.

[wizard333]

Eh. Maybe, maybe not. Having directly compared two bridge buckers wound symmetrically with 42 vs. 43 (same ~ turns), I've found the 43 much tighter, but not necessarily darker, and with perhaps a hint more mids. If resistive loading and the pots told the story, I should be able to at least approximate the difference with different pot and input resistor (amp side) values. Similarly, you could wind two to the same DCR reading with 42 and 43, and you get dissimilar results. There seems to be something to the wire size independent of the DCR. Maybe it's the aforementioned proximity to the magnet. IDK.

[JD0x0]

So, thicker wire = bigger coil = more inductance = 'fatter' sound?
How about output? Does the bigger coil @ the same DCR produce more output than a smaller coil of thinner wire, all else equal?

[big_teee]

Experiment with each gauge.
I do that with some bass pickups.
I found you could use more turns of smaller wire and still stay brighter with a tighter bass.
On coil diameter, it seems you reach the law of diminishing returns.
After you reach a certain diameter size, improvement falls off?
Don't forget the effect of different type of magnets.
YMMV,
T