Veteran winders! I need help!

[firebirdguy1972]

I just recently changed winders... My previous one wasn't really meant to be a winder but boy did it work! It spun at about 550 rpm so it took forever to make a pickup. I just got a coil winder from an amp guy that use to wind transformers. This one spins about 1400 rpm and obviously speeds up production. But now I'm having problems with the ends of the top flatwork of my strat bobbins flaring up and coming out of the bottom flat work slightly. Is it that the tops aren't flat enough to begin with or is it the speed? Am I using too much tension and that's causing it to flare out? I didn't have that problem before on my other "winder" really. Any other ideas? Pics coming soon.

[copperheadroads]

So is the bobbin flatwork flaring ? & is the wire building up evenly ? & symmetrical on both ends ?

[firebirdguy1972]

So is the bobbin flatwork flaring ? & is the wire building up evenly ? & symmetrical on both ends ?

Yes the flatwork is flaring up on the ends. The coil is tight and built up evenly on both ends.

The first photo shows that the magnet on the end is pulled out of the bottom flat work a bit. It was not like that when I started winding so obviously it has to do with how it's being wound.

[copperheadroads]

Faster winding needs less friction to apply the same amount of tension .
I've never had a magnet pull out of the bottom like in your first pic .wow

[big_teee]

Different guide stop method?
Guide collars too wide?
Do you glue your magnets with CA, or dip in lacquer?
T

[firebirdguy1972]

Different guide stop method?
Guide stops too wide?
Do you glue your magnets with CA, or dip in lacquer?
T

I don't use a traverse stop. 100% by hand. Like I said I never had any problems before doing it completely by hand. And I use lacquer.

[copperheadroads]

I've never made a Fender style pickup that I've never used CA on .

[big_teee]

I don't use a traverse stop. 100% by hand. Like I said I never had any problems before doing it completely by hand. And I use lacquer.

At that speed you need a guide rod with stop collars.
You are going too far to the edge and it puts pressure on the edges.
Especially when the bobbin is getting full.
I hand wind also, and I use a rod with stop collars, most hand winders do!
T

[firebirdguy1972]

At that speed you need a guide rod with stop collars.
You are going too far to the edge and it puts pressure on the edges.
Especially when the bobbin is getting full.
I hand wind also, and I use a rod with stop collars, most hand winders do!
T

Okay then! Sounds like I need to get that situated with my new setup. Thanks!

[mr fab]

are you gluing the flatwork to the magnets?

[kayakerca]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33776[/ATTACH]

The shape of the wire lay-down on the bobbin doesn't look like you are building up turns at the flatwork ends of your wind, so I don't see that as a problem here. I've never used CA or any other glue and I do not get flaring. My guess is that it's possibly one or a combination of the following things.

1. Tightness of the magnets in the flatwork based on the bobbin assembly technique and tension during winding. IMHO (and while others will no doubt disagree) hammering in magnets does not result in as firm a placement and seating as pressing magnets in does. Snugger fit = reduced opportunity for flaring.

2. How the bobbin is mounted on the winder. I believe that if both top and bottom of the bobbin are physically constrained by a faceplate on one side and an equivalent plate securing the bobbin from the outside, the opportunity for the wire to flare the flatwork is reduced.

3. Tension. As Copper said, the faster you wind, the less friction required to obtain the equivalent tensions as at a lower RPM.

FWIW, some experiences from a non-veteran winder. . .

[Jim Darr]

1. Tightness of the magnets in the flatwork based on the bobbin assembly technique and tension during winding....Snugger fit = reduced opportunity for flaring.

2. How the bobbin is mounted on the winder. I believe that if both top and bottom of the bobbin are physically constrained by a faceplate on one side and an equivalent plate securing the bobbin from the outside, the opportunity for the wire to flare the flatwork is reduced.

3. Tension. As Copper said, the faster you wind, the less friction required to obtain the equivalent tensions as at a lower RPM.

Excellent points by Jim.

My guess, without seeing the bobbin in hand, is that the flaring is a result of a combination of the three points listed by Jim. Try winding at about 1000 RPM and see if you get the same results. Then try using stop collars set slightly smaller than the flatwork coil height and see if that changes anything in your results. Glue or dip the bobbin (or try both) and see if that fixes your problem. I think your solution lies somewhere in these three points.

Just as a separate note, I've seen single coil examples from the 50s & 60s with with similar flatwork flaring issues.

[David King]

Set your stop guides in about .025" from the flatwork. If the flatwork is moving out on the magnets you will almost certainly get shorts to the magnets even if you taped them off first (which you should certainly consider doing if you are selling any of these pickups). You can either touch each magnet-flatwork interface with thin CA glue or you can use a slightly smaller drill bit, say .185" #13. Check your tension with a strain gauge! Hand winders have really no idea what their tension is until they get a good feel for it. Too much tension can cause many other problems down the road in the form of defective pickups. I use 7 grams of tension which is fine at 1000rpm. If you wind faster you will need more tension because centripetal force is trying to throw that wire off and will bulge the 42 AWG out in the middle of the coil. I wouldn't go over 15 grams even if the wire says it can handle 22-28 grams. That's the maximum rating and you are tempting fate if you try to wind up there.

[big_teee]

Like Jim said, if you mount with a top bar support there will be less flaring than just using double sided tape on one side.
The guide collars will help.
On gluing most guys either glue or dip in lacquer, or do both.
I hand wind, and tend to be a little heavy handed at times so I glue all my flatwork on the inside.
I don't dip, so I glue.
If you could slow the machine down a bit, until you get everything worked out that would be a help.
T

[kayakerca]

On gluing most guys either glue or dip in lacquer, or do both.

T

I'm definitely a lacquer guy. Single or double dipped, depending on which can of lacquer I am using at the time.