Pickups out of phase?

[LowNote]

I wound a couple of humbuckers for our guitar player. A mini and a firebird. They sound great individually but together his says they sound out of phase. I have had the pickups apart twice and can't find anything out of the ordinary. How can I find out if they are out of phase with each other?

LowNote

[big_teee]

You should be able to check each pickup with a DMM.
We covered this pretty good in this thread.
posts 17-25
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t40544/
GL,
T

[LowNote]

Thanks big_teee, now to find an analog meter.

LowNote

[big_teee]

I use my cheap Digital, like mentioned in that thread.
We were all using Digital meters there, set to MV.
You're not taking a voltage reading, your just looking for a +, or - on the scale.
See the other thread.
T

[David King]

You need a DMM that samples more than once a second or you will miss the signal. My 1985 Micronta is blind as a bat to the impulses.
Someday I will design and build a gizmo that can determine the polarity of two coils or 4 coils simultaneously.

[the great waldo]

You need a DMM that samples more than once a second or you will miss the signal. My 1985 Micronta is blind as a bat to the impulses.
Someday I will design and build a gizmo that can determine the polarity of two coils or 4 coils simultaneously.

Hello David

I'll have one if you ever get around to making it, my fuzzy old brain is always out of phase.

Cheers

Andrew

[Sock Puppet]

Hi Lownote, have you checked the magnetic polarity of the pickups? A flipped magnet there would put them magnetically out of phase.

[Mike Sulzer]

Hi Lownote, have you checked the magnetic polarity of the pickups? A flipped magnet there would put them magnetically out of phase.

Why not just flip one the magnets; that is, fix the problem and forget about it.

[big_teee]

Never Mind!
T

[Sock Puppet]

Big Teee, the pickup wouldn't be out of phase when played by itself but would still be humbucking.

The signal from that pickup would have the opposite electrical phase with the magnet flipped though and could well be the solution to Lownote's OOP problem.

[big_teee]

You're correct, I was thinking of two magnets or more instead of just one bar magnet.
I deal with bar magnets very seldom these days.
A problem he may have is one bobbin got flipped over.
With mini bobbins, they look the same flipped either way, and there is no top or bottom per say
I did that once, after that I got to coloring the top and bottom of the bobbin.
T

[Leo_Gnardo]

Big Teee, the pickup wouldn't be out of phase when played by itself but would still be humbucking.

The signal from that pickup would have the opposite electrical phase with the magnet flipped though and could well be the solution to Lownote's OOP problem.

Sock & Terry, ya had me goin' for a minute... because I have done the magnet flip. On a stereo Gibson, ES345 I think. The owner wasn't interested in the "stereo" effect, also had me take out the low-cut choke. Dissected the neck pickup, flipped the magnet, then he was happy the pickups added instead of canceled in "both" position.

[LowNote]

Thanks for all help and ideas. I'll start working on the pickups tomorrow. I do know that I have the north and south poles right. That was the first thing I checked. He thinks putting them in another guitar will make a difference. I don't so. If the pickups are out of phase with each other the will sound bad in any guitar.

LowNote

[Jim Darr]

Lownote,

I agree with Terry as to a potential cause worth considering.

With mini bobbins, they look the same flipped either way, and there is no top or bottom per say
I did that once, after that I got to coloring the top and bottom of the bobbin.
T

If everything else checks out, check for a flipped bobbin. But it sounds like both pickups sound fine alone so this solution might be a long shot. Flipped bobbin issues usually show up as an individual pickup problem.

Gibson used to put a black mark on the white nylon bobbin of the minis so they could assembly them with the proper top up orientation. The original P.A.F. bobbins had no mark for bobbin top, so in the next mold iteration they put a "T" on the top of the bobbin among other changes thought of as improvements. I, like Terry, had a problem that turned out to be an incorrectly oriented bobbin.

Remember there is a difference between "electrically out of phase" and "magnetically out of phase".

Good luck and let us know what the problem was.

[Steve A.]

Remember there is a difference between "electrically out of phase" and "magnetically out of phase".

Can you elaborate on this? I understand that there is supposed to be a difference but have never been able to hear it.

Thanks!

Steve Ahola

P.S. I think that OOP works best if you have separate volume controls- even better if they are independent so that turning down one control does not mute the middle position. (To convert stock guitar wiring to this swap the wires going to the wiper and hot terminal of each volume control- if you also move the wire or cap going to the tone control you get "50's wiring" with less treble roll-off as you turn down the volume control.)