A 2012 color trademark court desicion. Pay attention.

[Steve A.]

Current discussion of the Gear Page forum.

Cream bobbins restricted? | The Gear Page

4 pages of TGP posts in a single day? I think I'll pass...

Steve Ahola

[WolfeMacleod]

Current discussion of the Gear Page forum.

Cream bobbins restricted? | The Gear Page

[big_teee]

I for one, think that the Deemarz copyright is wrong.
Especially since his standard color is now black.
With that said I don't make that many pickups, and to me is just a hobby.
If I had $1000, I would have better places to flush it, than jumping into this quagmire of quicksand!
The best of luck to anyone that does!
YMMV,
T

[WolfeMacleod]

It seems clear that the trademark would most likely vanish if it went to court. I'm sure even a jury can recognize that guitarists want pickups that match the cream binding and the cream pickup mounts that come with their guitars, without having to be locked into a single company's products. So, I wonder what the legal price tag would be in order to invalidate the trade mark, all said and done. Thousands? Tens of thousands?

Easily $100,000. But, withthe precedence that has already been set in previous cases, I think $100,000 might go pretty far.

But.. if 1000 people donate $100 to the defense... or 100 people donate $1000...


Another thing that can happen is that anyone who has received a threat from Dimarzio in the past can file for a declaratory judgement that ask the court to find the trademark aesthetically functional (citing previous cases, of course) -- as I understand it, Dimarzio would then have to come prove that it's not aesthetically functional... which I don't think they could do. Why?? Simple question: Why do pickup companies offer pickups in more than one color?

[big_teee]

Your logo is fine, but most guys I cater too don't want anything on the top of the pickup.
I for one, don't like it on the top, but prefer it marked on the bottom.
The logo takes away from the stock guitar look.
To each his own.
A logo should not be required, and I hope that is not the answer to this dilemma?
T

[John Kolbeck]

It seems clear that the trademark would most likely vanish if it went to court. I'm sure even a jury can recognize that guitarists want pickups that match the cream binding and the cream pickup mounts that come with their guitars, without having to be locked into a single company's products. So, I wonder what the legal price tag would be in order to invalidate the trade mark, all said and done. Thousands? Tens of thousands?

[ken]

This is an interesting topic. This has been stated at various times before but bears repeating.

The main issue seems to be DiM's trademark wording concerning the color 'cream' - 'that shade of yellow commonly known as cream'. (sic) This seems very unnecessarily broad, as everybody sees colors in different ways. One person's 'cream' is another's 'sand' is another's 'taupe'.

I worked in a web printing press for a summer awhile back, and the pressmen have equipment that can shine light on any color and read it as Pantone color values for CMYK, or cyan, magenta, yellow, or black. This is done so everything they print comes out exactly the same color every time. Big deal, you say. Who cares. Why is this important?

Now, we all know what color DiM's 'cream' is. It's the color of a brand new Super Distortion (SD) pickup bobbin. We also know what passes for 'cream' by various pickup bobbin molders.

IMO the best way out of this is to take a new SD pickup and get a Pantone color reading printout of the bobbin, as well as that of various other pickup bobbin suppliers. Or, get samples of bobbins ranging from 'natural uncolored butyrate white' to 'bottom of the ashtray brown' and let them try to tell the court exactly which shade of 'yellow' is the 'cream' color they trademarked. This way it can easily be proven that no two 'cream' shades are truly alike, and also easily shows how broad the original wording actually was.
In other words... let them prove which shade is theirs, as they can't possibly claim them all. Then, having two visible parts to a product colored the same shade (not 'their' shade) is a moot point.

You can say for example green Mountain Dew soda bottles are a color trademark. This is true... to the extent that they are a *specific shade* of green easily differentiated from other shades. I highly doubt the makers of Dew stated their trademarked color 'was the shade of green commonly known as somewhere between yellowygreen and sea green, unless it's full of errr.... some kind of liquid... in which case the color of the full part of the bottle may differ from that of the empty part...' (joke)
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If this statement is true:
A trademark is an identifier of quality to indicate to consumers the origin of the product, thus enabling them to rely on the marks in their purchase decisions.
Then you should be able to make pickups any color you want- as long as you clearly identify them with your logo.

Think about it.

Image Trademark with Serial Number 73150505
Status: 800 - Registered And Renewed

Mark Drawing 2S15 - Illustration: Drawing or design without any word(s)/letter(s)/ number(s)

Description of Mark: The mark comprises the double design representation of an electronic sound pickup for guitars, which is disclaimed apart from the mark as shown.
Does that mean you could avoid infringing DM's trademark simply by putting some word(s)/letter(s)/number(s) on the front of the pickup? Like, say, your logo? Yes, I realize this might increase production costs by some trivial amount. But if you are proud of your product, why wouldn't you want it to be easily identified? Unless, of course, your actual intent is to infringe on DM's trademark....

I think putting a logo on the top of any pickup you make is a great idea. I belong to a guitarmakers' forum on social media, and we have been going on this same subject for a week now. If you are proud of your creation, why would you not want to sign your work? Just for the sake of arguing... here's one of mine. Not 'double cream' of course. I've been logoing them since 2006 or so.

One more thing... before anyone asks the 'tube and halo' logo on this pickup is my own trademark - all rights reserved. For real.



Rant over...

ken

[WolfeMacleod]

Could it be argued that if Dmarz makes pickups in another color besides their "trademark" color, it indicates willful abandonment of their trademark?

No, not unless they ceased anyuse completely.
The better argument would be that they (and we) make different colors for a reason, and that reason is because guitarists want to match colors to their guitars for a harmonious "whole"

[Richard]

I don't think it's the case with cream but if it was an unusual color like the orange Lamborghini uses I could see getting a trademark. Cream is not a distinctive color (or a color at all according to some art teachers).

[eschertron]

Why do I think Dimarzio is being a butt? Well, it's because they don't make pickups in ONLY their trademarked cream color. They can make pickups in any color that any other pickup company can make (such as black), PLUS the trademarked cream color. The Tiffany blue jewelry box is much less of a butt-move because Tiffany only uses that one blue color for their boxes (with rare exceptions like red for Christmas). John Deere tractors are only ever green and yellow. But Dimarzio is effectively, in my opinion, trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Could it be argued that if Dmarz makes pickups in another color besides their "trademark" color, it indicates willful abandonment of their trademark?

[JGravelin]

Hello everyone - hope you're all happy and well. Wolfe, thanks for reaching out to me. I'm in.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I find it mind-boggling that 50% of the inquiries to a winder who makes Strat, Tele, and P90 style pickups, plus several flavors of screw/slug HBs (one of which ships by default with an aged cover) are for double-cream HBs.

"Can you get me what I can't have?" It's human nature. That which is forbidden becomes so much more attractive. It explains a lot of behavior.

Now if those double-cream HB seekers/players would turn out some fantastic music with their special pickups, wouldn't that be terrific? I'm going to have another listen to Disreaeli Gears now, old fashioned Cream and nobody worried what color the pickups were, ah the good ol' days.

[WolfeMacleod]

I find it mind-boggling that 50% of the inquiries to a winder who makes Strat, Tele, and P90 style pickups, plus several flavors of screw/slug HBs (one of which ships by default with an aged cover) are for double-cream HBs.

Of all the tints, shades, and tones of all the hues in the spectrum, one color is trademarked for HBs with exposed bobbins- and every guitarist must have that color. If you see your guitar as a work of art, why defile it with pukey pinky beige pickups? Using Mike's "Victoria's Secret" analogy, it's as if women were clamoring for trademarked "Mrs. Potato Head's Skin Tone" brassieres. (Actually, I think MPHST pickups would better complement most guitar color schemes.)

The popularity comes and goes.
Despite also making strat and tele single coils, 99% of my work is humbuckers and P90s. I might do as little as a dozen single per year.

[rjb]

I think that demand is apparent rather than real;

I find it mind-boggling that 50% of the inquiries to a winder who makes Strat, Tele, and P90 style pickups, plus several flavors of screw/slug HBs (one of which ships by default with an aged cover) are for double-cream HBs.

Of all the tints, shades, and tones of all the hues in the spectrum, one color is trademarked for HBs with exposed bobbins- and every guitarist must have that color. If you see your guitar as a work of art, why defile it with pukey pinky beige pickups? Using Mike's "Victoria's Secret" analogy, it's as if women were clamoring for trademarked "Mrs. Potato Head's Skin Tone" brassieres. (Actually, I think MPHST pickups would better complement most guitar color schemes.)

[Mike Sulzer]

[QUOTE=WolfeMacleod;426702

While I can't speak for others, my requests for double-cream average around 4-6 every week. That's a fairly hefty percentage for a small builder.
[/QUOTE]

I think that demand is apparent rather than real; that is, since no one can sell it, those who are looking for it make a large number of requests to many builders. looking for someone who does. If the restriction goes, then I think the apparent demand drops, and the actual demand for any builder would not be so large since anyone could build it.