Major bummer...misleading price quotes.

[WolfeMacleod]

70 something for sure.
I remember Eric Clapton advertised the Alex T Specials....etc....

Very interesting. Can you help dig up any more information about this?

So, essentially, it sounds like early Dimarzio's weren't Dimarzio at all? And they received a CnD to stop violating the patent?, which would have been 17 years and expired in 1976, according to the attorney that Sheptone was using...

I wonder how this could impact the cream thing.

[rjb]

patent?, which would have been 17 years and expired in 1976, according to the attorney that Sheptone was using...

Expiration date would be 17 years after filing date.
June 22, 1955 + 17 years = June 22, 1972.

Patent Term Calculator | USPTO

• In 1861, Congress again changed the term to 17 years with no extension.
• In 1994 the US signed the Uruguay Round Agreements Act changed the date from which the term was measured. Because the term was measured from the filing date of the application and not the grant date of the patent, Congress amended 35 U.S.C. § 154 to provide for applications filed after June 7, 1995....

Seth Lover patent:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p.../US2896491.pdf

[J M Fahey]

Very interesting. Can you help dig up any more information about this?

So, essentially, it sounds like early Dimarzio's weren't Dimarzio at all? And they received a CnD to stop violating the patent?, which would have been 17 years and expired in 1976, according to the attorney that Sheptone was using...

I wonder how this could impact the cream thing.

We´d have to literally "dig" , Juan Sousa passed away 2 years ago because of untreated cancer, I refuse to call Homeopathics-only a proper treatment.
Not sure about the legal stuff, first pickups I mentioned were designed and made by Larry Di Marzio but working for Alex Musical and sold under their own brand and model designation (T Special), and it was Alex who had to momentarily stop selling them.
I bet when Larry started with his own this was already settled.

As of the "cream" issue, I find it ridicule and unenforceable.
Maybe a "colour scheme" can be protected, if unusual and heavily associated with some product, but generic plain colours, such as black/white/cream/whatever are stretching it way too much.
Beyond mere colours, can Fender protect use of black fiber?
I guess not, and not being a silly/frivolous Company, I bet they won´t even try.

[WolfeMacleod]

Expiration date would be 17 years after filing date.
June 22, 1955 + 17 years = June 22, 1972.

Patent Term Calculator | USPTO

Discuss this with my patent attorney. This is also the date I came up with, using that expiry date calculator. From the date ISSUED, not the date FILED.

Hi Wolfe,

Yes, according to my research, without having access to the full wrapper for this patent, patent number 2,896,491, the expiry would be July 28, 1976. It may have been shorter if there was a terminal disclaimer (which I see no evidence of in the patent) or later (if they had a patent term adjustment, again which I don’t see any evidence of in the patent, and I’m not sure if these adjustments existed in 1959—the earliest I’ve seen referenced is 1984).



Thanks,

Jim Haugen

Patent Attorney

Seattle Patent Group LLC

4020 148th Ave NE, Suite D

Redmond, WA 98052

[rjb]

Discuss this with my patent attorney. This is also the date I came up with, using that expiry date calculator. From the date ISSUED, not the date FILED.

OK, I stand corrected. July 28, 1976 it is.
I was going by my interpretation of the USPTO site's wording.
This makes it more clear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_o..._United_States

-1789	-	-
1790–1835	14 years from issuance	Patent Act of 1790
1836–1860	21 years from issuance	Patent Act of 1836
1861–1994	17 years from issuance	-
1995-	20 years from filing	Uruguay Round Agreements Act

Whatever,
-rb

[WolfeMacleod]

OK, I stand corrected. July 28, 1976 it is.
I was going by my interpretation of the USPTO site's text.
This makes it more clear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_o..._United_States

-1789	-	-
1790–1835	14 years from issuance	Patent Act of 1790
1836–1860	21 years from issuance	Patent Act of 1836
1861–1994	17 years from issuance	-
1995-	20 years from filing	Uruguay Round Agreements Act

Whatever,
-rb

Well then.... are you saying that Dimarzio was capitalizing on someone else's unexpired intellectual property?

[rjb]

Well then.... are you saying that Dimarzio was capitalizing on someone else's unexpired intellectual property?

I really am not in a position to say.

It would not be prudent to put 100% confidence in our derived expiration date; I got mine from freakin' Wikipedia, and you got yours from a lawyer who is unsure when patent term adjustments came into existence.

If the question is "Did DiMarzio produce humbucking pickups before July 28, 1976?", then the answer is yes.
But DiMarzio was clearly on Gibson's "radar", and, as Juan relates, "legal haggling" appears to have been settled.

Perhaps a medium could be employed to contact Juan Sousa?

-rb

[J M Fahey]

Not Di Marzio himself.
Is Alex (senior) alive?
It was he who actually ordered the dies and molds and paid for them, had the pickups wound and assembled at least by LDM but probably also by some other employee(s) , at least as a helping hand.

And of course he advertised (nowhere less than GP) and sold them.

Just guessing, but he should have registered "T Specials" as a trademark.

[mr fab]

hi wolfe

i have worked a lot in the plastics industry and have some tool makers here in OZ who do work for me.

they also do injection moulding and make their dies in-house... or at least used to.

they make many parts for the automotive industry, as well as many others.

they now get their dies made in china and then "clean them up" in their own workshops.

it seems to work well for them and they can remain competitive when it comes to getting tooling made, and they maintain control by having the expertise to finesse the dies in-house

this maybe some food for thought..... i agree its better to get the parts made locally, but you could find someone who does similar things in the US