Original Silvertone lipstick repair.

[Marco Pancaldi]

Hello,

I'm restoring an old vintage Silvertone. The single lipstick pickup has half of his case broken. The two screws securing the PU to the height-setting springs are very rusted. Two Q's.:

1) can I open the cover without too much risks? I have some experience with traditional SC and HB pickups (rewinding and the usual stuff) but I've seen some horror photos on the net about old lipsticks. I opened some new Danelectro pickups and the parts and construction are so poor that I'm afraid that an old, rusted PU can be opened but never re-closed again.

2) in case you suggest to try: where can I find a new, correct-sized, cover?

Thanks!
m.p.

[Jim Darr]

Marco,

Depending on the break in the case, I'd consider just leaving it if the pickup is working.

Those original Danos had no bobbin form and the wire was wound directly on the magnet, then covered in tape and stuffed in the tube. To be honest the few that I have worked on were problematic. Rusted screws can be loosened with the proper chemical for that sort of problem, but the loosening agent may also penetrate the tape and ruin the windings and tape. Also, I've had some rusted screws that didn't want to budge at all after many attempts.

If the pickup is working consider trying to seal the broken portion of the case. An epoxy might work or a thick cyanoacrylate may do the job to bring the cracked pieces back together. Of course you always risk ruining the coil if you squeeze too hard to bring the broken pieces back together and you have to be careful with glue penetration (tape and /or coil being ruined).

You could always look for a period correct replacement and sell your existing pup "as-is".

Can you show a detailed pic - that might help in the suggestions.

[Jim Darr]

One thing I forgot to mention in yesterday's post. The old vintage Dano pickup's tape typically has become a very sticky mess and almost impossible to remove. My experience has been that this tape has deteriorated to the point of becoming almost a big glob of goo and trying to remove or unwrap it, usually for me at least, breaks the magnet wire. Sometimes the tape is stuck in the lipstick tube as well. I really don't mess with these any more unless the coil is already broken.

I am curious as to other experiences or workarounds to this problem.

[Marco Pancaldi]

Thanks!

[soundmasterg]

Is that pickup still functioning? If so, what is the DC resistance?

Thanks,

Greg

[big_teee]

GFS sells a bunch of different Lipsticks.
You could get one for parts.
http://www.guitarfetish.com/Pro-Tube...ups_c_110.html
The design is very basic, just a single coil wound around a bar magnet.
IMO the lipstick design is not too great, and very limited on winding space.
The Strat bar mag pickup is the same design without the lipstick cover.
Strat Blade Flatwork Set
It is a better design, and has more bobbin room to wind on.
T

[Jim Darr]

Is that pickup still functioning? If so, what is the DC resistance?

Thanks,

Greg

The vintage originals had fairly low ohm readings compared to other pickups of the day. I've typically seen them in the mid 3K range...3.3k to about 3.7K.

My taste has changed over the years and I've either liked them or not so much so. I've come around to liking their unique and ingenious design and really like the sounds out of them...Yes, it is different than strats, teles, and HBs, but that is what makes them cool. The modern ones are quite different than the originals in design and sound.

Also worth noting, the necks on the original guitars always seem to be dead-on straight. Just poplar with two metal bars running the length of the fingerboard not quite parallel to each other...works really well and has stood the test of time. Wish my two reissues had the original design non-adjustable necks.

[soundmasterg]

The vintage originals had fairly low ohm readings compared to other pickups of the day. I've typically seen them in the mid 3K range...3.3k to about 3.7K.

My taste has changed over the years and I've either liked them or not so much so. I've come around to liking their unique and ingenious design and really like the sounds out of them...Yes, it is different than strats, teles, and HBs, but that is what makes them cool. The modern ones are quite different than the originals in design and sound.

Also worth noting, the necks on the original guitars always seem to be dead-on straight. Just poplar with two metal bars running the length of the fingerboard not quite parallel to each other...works really well and has stood the test of time. Wish my two reissues had the original design non-adjustable necks.

On my first generation reissue DC3 I modified the control layout, moving the jack to the side and going with individual volume and tone controls. It makes it much easier to use. I also installed some Duncan Custom Shop lipsticks that I had him make for me. Wolfe had to provide them with the vintage correct alnico 6 magnets...they were trying to convince me to use degaussed 5 or 2, which won't sound the same at all. Anyway the Duncans are good...about 3.8k on all three pickups. I was just curious what the original had.

I like the vintage Danos a lot but haven't been able to afford one. Their pickups have a unique sound and as you said the necks are almost always dead straight after all these years. Winding something hotter just because the bobbin has room isn't always the best thing to do. Some of my favorite pickups are the Gretsch Hi-Lo Trons which are really weak, and also the Rickenbacker toasters, which are also pretty weak. The reissue Dano's are different, with the plywood frame on the body and the maple neck, but they are good guitars and sound similar to the originals.

Greg

[Jim Darr]

...Wolfe had to provide them with the vintage correct alnico 6 magnets...

...Winding something hotter just because the bobbin has room isn't always the best thing to do...

...Some of my favorite pickups are the Gretsch Hi-Lo Trons which are really weak...

Agree with your statements, especially these three points you made.

Yes, the A6 makes a big difference in sound. Something that today's winders don't know, often overlook, or have trouble sourcing.

Hotter, meaning more winds, is not always the best choice IMO. I believe the pickup has a more dynamic response if it is not too over-wound. And, over-wound is a term that is difficult to often clearly define, meaning over-wound to what standard and to what extent? We all know the single-coil and HB pickup of the day varied quite wildly as to number of turns. So, what is the standard for comparison?

Your right, the Hi-Lo Trons are also very weak in terms of turn count and output. It is essentially only half of a Filter-Tron, using only one coil, but it does have the same magnet. Never a strong contender in my book, but unique sounding.

[soundmasterg]

Agree with your statements, especially these three points you made.

Yes, the A6 makes a big difference in sound. Something that today's winders don't know, often overlook, or have trouble sourcing.

Hotter, meaning more winds, is not always the best choice IMO. I believe the pickup has a more dynamic response if it is not too over-wound. And, over-wound is a term that is difficult to often clearly define, meaning over-wound to what standard and to what extent? We all know the single-coil and HB pickup of the day varied quite wildly as to number of turns. So, what is the standard for comparison?

Your right, the Hi-Lo Trons are also very weak in terms of turn count and output. It is essentially only half of a Filter-Tron, using only one coil, but it does have the same magnet. Never a strong contender in my book, but unique sounding.

I like the Hi-Lo Tron, but its not like its a favorite. I like having options, so I have and will use lots of different types of guitars to get the sound I want. When I play live I am usually playing blues though, so for that I often use a Tele, LP, or Strat like many people. I like the Danelectro and Rics and Gretsches for a change for that stuff. For other types of music I will use whatever gets the sound I want because I am usually mixing and matching in a studio environment.

Greg