Scatter Winding?

[nickt]

First post folks so be gentle

Scatter winding gets mentioned a lot but what does it really mean?
Not after trade secrets here just a definition.

Should wires cross or should the number of turns per row vary row to row?
Does anyone wind multiple wires at a time? If so does it have the same effect as scatter winding?

Anyway just curious - think I'd have to buy possum's pickups rather than make them.

Thanks
Nick

[soundmasterg]

What is usually termed as a typical machine wind is where the wire lays side by side with the previous wrap and you just go from the bottom to the top and back and forth again or vice versa until the bobbin is as full as you want it to be. This can be done when hand-winding too but is not as consistant at it as a machine is. A machine wind can also be done pretty randomly too.

A scatterwind is often termed as hand-winding but can be a machine wind too. A scatterwind is when the wire wraps around as the bobbin turns in either a random or repeated pattern to where it is criss-crossing. This makes the coil larger for the same number of turns because the wire is taking up more space. This has a huge effect over the final sound which is why the best pickups are usually scatterwound.

Trust me in that you can't make Possum's pickups or copies of his pickups without the experience and time spent. Possum has spent years obsessively trying to figure out what sounds good and incorporating that into his products. Others here such as Lollar, Wolfe, Spence, etc., have done the same. Trying to just get a coil winder and bobbin parts from Stew Mac or the like and wind up something isn't going to get you anywhere close to where you want to be. If you want the sound of Possum's pickups, then buy them. If you want to be able to duplicate the sound of Possum's pickups yourself, then you need to get started now and be prepared to spend most of the next 5 years trying to perfect them, make many of your own parts or have them made at great expense, and make lots of bad sounding pickups until you figure it out. And even then, your winds will sound different because you did them and not Possum. Sorry to be so blunt, but thats just the way it is. Theres a lot more to pickup making than just winding a coil and being done with it.

Greg

[nickt]

A scatterwind is when the wire wraps around as the bobbin turns in either a random or repeated pattern to where it is criss-crossing. This makes the coil larger for the same number of turns because the wire is taking up more space. This has a huge effect over the final sound which is why the best pickups are usually scatterwound.

Cool - this is exactly what I was after!

Trust me in that you can't make Possum's pickups or copies of his pickups without the experience and time spent.

Yep that's why I said I'd have to buy not make in the original post Just from his youtube stuff Possum's gear seems to be da bomb! I'm slowly putting together a les paul and will probably buy a set for that.

Might play around rewinding for my own use but just for fun - got a couple of dead strat pickups plus some duncans in my diy tele - no intention of trying winding as a business though.

Thanks again for all the info.

[David Schwab]

I find that any hand wound pickup sounds pretty good (unless you are a total clod), and better than most factory pickups, but getting the subtle (and not so subtle) variations that Possum gets is tricky stuff!

I spend 98% of my time doing bass pickups, and a particular type of bass pickup, and I'm still flushing out all the variations on that. The few PAF style humbuckers I wound sound good... I like them. And they have a certain tone. I used Stew-Mac kits, and these were just for practice. You have to learn the basics before you try new ideas.

How if someone wanted more mids, or lows, or whatever, you have to experiment and learn what makes certain tones. It's time consuming, and there are so many variables. And then try finding the right parts!

So by all means try your hand at winding, and after you can make a working pickup consistently, then start changing one aspect at a time. You might come up with something different you like.

But don't bother trying to copy someone else's pickups. Figuring out what they did is like finding a needle in a haystack.

[nickt]

I find that any hand wound pickup sounds pretty good (unless you are a total clod), and better than most factory pickups, but getting the subtle (and not so subtle) variations that Possum gets is tricky stuff!

I spend 98% of my time doing bass pickups, and a particular type of bass pickup, and I'm still flushing out all the variations on that. The few PAF style humbuckers I wound sound good... I like them. And they have a certain tone. I used Stew-Mac kits, and these were just for practice. You have to learn the basics before you try new ideas.

Yes this is basically what I'm looking at - rewinding a couple of my own pickups and maybe messing with some Stew Mac kits - then playing through them. At the rate I work this may happen sometime between now and 2015!

But don't bother trying to copy someone else's pickups. Figuring out what they did is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Totally agree. Just to be absolutely clear - when I talk about buying Possums pickups its to mount in a guitar and play through, not reverse engineer. Something must be getting lost in the translation from Aussie to US English!

Anyway thanks for the encouragement David - you're one of the folks I really enjoy reading on this forum.

cheers
Nick

[Ruel]

Lost in translation

Totally agree. Just to be absolutely clear - when I talk about buying Possums pickups its to mount in a guitar and play through, not reverse engineer. Something must be getting lost in the translation from Aussie to US English!

Anyway thanks for the encouragement David - you're one of the folks I really enjoy reading on this forum.

cheers
Nick

Newcomers are always treated with suspicion here. What with so many getting into pickup winding then selling their stuff in ebay, claiming to have the absolute PAF clone. Don't mind it. Go on and try your hand at winding. You might be surprised to find out that it is possible to turn out better pickups than commercially available ones, even for a newbie like you. Be forewarned though. It could get addicting.