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  • "This discussion seems to be drifting out of focus."

    I've noticed that there's a few regulars here who'll reply to a basic question with high science, take over threads with their own discussion, and obfuscate in regard to the OPs initial inquiry. This has been especially prevalent over the last 3 years or so.

    What's up with that? A ploy to hide information? To intimidate people with knowledge over their heads to discourage them? Do you think a service is being performed to the community with this somehow? Please explain because I'm pretty sure a number of people here would be interested! Inquiring minds want to know.

    Respectfully,
    Max

  • #2
    Hi Max
    I don't participate in the pickup threads, but I am sure I am one of those people in the other sections. Here is my response, speaking only for myself.

    This is not an information service, it is a forum. It is a gathering of like minded people. WHy accuse members of malicious motives or negative traits, What's up with that? In most threads an attempt is made to answer the OP question. Once it has been sufficiently answered, the conversation does not automatically stop. We often exercise the social aspect of this forum.

    Hide information? DOn't be silly, many of us come here and give away what would be thousands of dollars worth of our time and expertise in our day jobs. Intimidate? I for one take great pains to explain technical stuff in everyday language with my express purpose making people feel more comfortable with it. If I make a joke it is to lighten the mood and disarm fears, the exact opposite of intimidation. DOing a service? Well, frankly yes, I think a lot of people come here and freely share their knowledge and experience. But I suspect you meant we think we are doing a service by wandering off topic. No, that is just the result of a relaxed and convivial atmosphere.

    I will say that often we answer a OP question, but it remains pretty clear the reasoning behind the answer was not clear to the OP, and JUST AS IMPORTANT to all the lurkers and timid novices out there just following along. We expand into the theory or wider application of the information to help their understanding. I for one want the OP to know WHY the answer we gave works so he may recognize in the future that some other situation is really the same. I want the OP to learn that changing the cathode resistor changes the gain, I don't want him to just learn "Change the third resistor from the left on the board".

    Many of us regulars are regulars because we find this technology interesting, and we have found kindred spirits. We are online friends. To me, logging in here is like walking into a tavern. Imagine you walked into a local sports bar and asked "How many interceptions did Kirk Cousins throw last week?" DO you expect some one to say "Three" and just shut up? I think it would be valid for someone else to add, "But that is better than the four the week before". And someone else says "He shoulda stayed in Washington", and what do you know, you are off topic.

    Others may feel differently.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

    Comment


    • #3
      The Pickup Category is a single category.
      In amps, you have all the sub-categories, that the Pickup category does not have, including Theory and Design.
      So when a guy asks a simple pickup winding question, it sometimes goes two directions.
      We have some here that just want basic winding info, then we have some that just want to talk theory, on an intellectual level.
      If the Pickup Category had a Theory and design category, then I could move the theory threads into that category.
      This has been a long time rub in this Pickup winding area.
      This is not the first time this issue has come up!
      T
      Last edited by big_teee; 05-01-2020, 06:35 PM.


      "If Wishes Were Horses, Beggars Would Ride!" Scottish Proverb 1600s
      Terry

      Comment


      • #4
        Enzo, fair points made. I was thinking of those who are asking reasonably simple questions only to be met with a barrage of science when a practical response/solution could be equally as simple as the initial question put forth. I certainly meant no disrespect to any one; was simply interested in why this happens. My apologies.

        BigT, I appreciate your attention to how things are handled and sorry to bring this subject up again! Again, I was just curious.

        Comment


        • #5
          It always amazes me how deep the pickup discussions can get. It's just a coil of wire around a magnet and metal, right? But there is a subtle interaction at play between all the various elements. I've seen Maxwell's equations, authoritative papers, Python scripts and all kinds of measurement gear brought to gain insight into their inner workings. So, sometimes things are really quite complex and don't have a simple answer.

          I'm very grateful that we have members who have a deep understanding of them and help bring their knowledge to the table. It can be hard to read sometimes, but the effort to understand will enrich.
          Last edited by nickb; 05-01-2020, 09:06 PM.
          Experience is something you get, just after you really needed it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by nickb View Post
            I'm very grateful that we have members who have a deep understanding of them and help bright their knowledge to the table. It can be hard to read sometimes, but the effort to understand will enrich.
            Agreed 100%, and there's plenty of contributions we all can make from the practical to the highly technical. I'll be the first to admit that there are considerable holes in my overall knowledge and that I know just enough of the science to be dangerous; so I will tend to focus on real "in practice" solutions. I am ALWAYS more than happy and excited to learn however. I didn't mean to come off as a negative nancy, truly. F Me!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by max oersted View Post
              I've noticed that there's a few regulars here who'll reply to a basic question with high science, take over threads with their own discussion, and obfuscate in regard to the OPs initial inquiry. This has been especially prevalent over the last 3 years or so.

              What's up with that? A ploy to hide information? To intimidate people with knowledge over their heads to discourage them? Do you think a service is being performed to the community with this somehow? Please explain because I'm pretty sure a number of people here would be interested! Inquiring minds want to know.

              Respectfully,
              Max
              You're referring to this thread https://music-electronics-forum.com/...ad.php?t=51003 , OP's question "You pull one of the bar magnets on a P90 and only provide the one primary sensing area?" , the notion of "sensing areas" is inherently technical, there is no way around it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by big_teee View Post
                The Pickup Category is a single category.
                In amps, you have all the sub-categories, that the Pickup category does not have, including Theory and Design.
                So when a guy asks a simple pickup winding question, it sometimes goes two directions.
                We have some here that just want basic winding info, then we have some that just want to talk theory, on an intellectual level.
                If the Pickup Category had a Theory and design category, then I could move the theory threads into that category.
                This has been a long time rub in this Pickup winding area.
                This is not the first time this issue has come up!
                T
                It seems to me that in your particular position with the overall forum (being a triple threat guy ) that you might be able to expand on the pickup forum with a theory and design area. Though it might be best to call it something else to avoid confusion? Anyway, your opinion might carry some weight with the guy that arranges sub categories. Then, as a mod, you could move threads or continuations of threads to the appropriate category as you see fit. After all, we (you, Jason and I) have already been up to that in the amp forums since our appointment to this office.

                Submitted for your consideration.
                "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

                Comment


                • #9
                  From an outsider:

                  Pickups - physics

                  Pickups - practical


                  Or something like that. You can carry the meaning without the word "theory".


                  Or perhaps:

                  Pickups - winding/repair

                  Pickups - design
                  Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Enzo View Post
                    To me, logging in here is like walking into a tavern. Imagine you walked into a local sports bar and asked "How many interceptions did Kirk Cousins throw last week?" DO you expect some one to say "Three" and just shut up? I think it would be valid for someone else to add, "But that is better than the four the week before". And someone else says "He shoulda stayed in Washington", and what do you know, you are off topic
                    So, albeit English is not my native language, may I drivel a bit here, like the senior that I am ? :-)

                    I’ll react with my own humble / subjective perception and experience of online moderator, affiliated to a local luthier / pickup winder, and member under various names in other online communities.

                    I think that in guitar / tech websites, generally speaking, several kinds of scientific posts can be distinguished:

                    1-the ones wrote to help. Yep, Music-Electronics is an outstanding place for that, BTW;

                    2-the (legitimately) “defensive” replies coming from knowledgeable people who have been challenged in their competences;

                    3-the “offensive” answers, in all the meanings of this term.

                    “Offensive” like the answers from people who fantasize to be an embodiment of Science (sometimes wirhout academic background) and who try to impose their theories to the World Wide Web.

                    and / or...

                    “Offensive” like pretentious dominative posts worded to disqualify other contributions, to vilify, depreciate, deny, refute, challenge, teach and preach, impress.

                    These two kinds of “offensive” posts often come from the same “contributors”.

                    In many cases, such authors are not exactly “regulars”: they wander between forums, looking for an argument. Reason why they are periodically banned here and there... but it doesn't encourage them to use positively their knowledge by helping concretely other people or by designing / building innovative products.

                    I see a problem in the third kind of posts only, for obvious reasons (having seen them trying to ruin the reputation of my friend winder, who is a seasoned, honest, creative and courageous artisan, BTW).

                    Fortunately, anyone can avoid to reply to these negative posts.

                    If ever this generalization seems to be drifting out of focus, please, pardon me. Once again, I was rambling about my overall feeling of mod and member.

                    I wish you all a nice Sunday, fellow members. :-)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      When replying to posts I always try to assess the OPs level of experience and likely knowledge of the subject. There's little point in a guy asking in his first post if he can use a magnetized nail for for a polepiece, only to be greeted right away with "Well if you properly thought about the Peters-Lee interaction you'd be able to calculate from the Theta-Ralgex constant explained in Shatner's 1926 paper on Magnetic Micro Nominality the answer would be possibly, but it all depends".

                      Maybe that comes later once the OP has his answer and then those interested can take up the detailed discussion. This sometimes happens to me - I post a question, get a string of replies and then the discussion gets really heavy with theoretical content. I don't mind that. That's the nature of this place. I'm more of a hands-on, practical guy with a flat-earth model that serves me just fine but sometimes I follow-up on some theoretical aspect I want to get a better understanding of.

                      I'm just happy that this forum exists. A lot of forums are populated with idiots. I think this is one of the best there is, purely because we do have plenty of really knowledgeable people from all kinds of backgrounds who will spend their own time in considering the question posed and replying within their own sphere of knowledge and experience.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                        When replying to posts I always try to assess the OPs level of experience and likely knowledge of the subject. There's little point in a guy asking in his first post if he can use a magnetized nail for for a polepiece, only to be greeted right away with "Well if you properly thought about the Peters-Lee interaction you'd be able to calculate from the Theta-Ralgex constant explained in Shatner's 1926 paper on Magnetic Micro Nominality the answer would be possibly, but it all depends".
                        That was my Sunday morning funnies right there I pictured some poor guys head exploding (like mine did ).
                        "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                        "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                        "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          How many times do we see in a thread.. ďConcerning the OP...Ē after some conversational divergence? There are bench techs here, there are engineers, there are novices desperate with a problem, and everything in between. Itís real easy.. you skim what you donít understand or what you donít deal applicable. Who knows? You may even learn something on the journey. I know I frequently do. Then in a following post your issue will probably be addressed. If not, you can always say that you are confused and need additional or more basic information. Most regulars here are more than willing to help at any level. The exception might be if we think that someone is so inexperienced they might hurt themselves. But thatís probably not the case for a pickup thread. Certainly a possibility for an amp thread.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yesterday I felt like a complete jackass for posting and speaking my true thoughts. Now after reading responses, I still feel like a bit of an ass ..but maybe there's some good that can come out of it. Happy to take a hit here and there either way. Live and learn.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I Liken this forum to being like a family or tight group of friends. We have different opinions and maybe fall out with each other from time to time, but the underlying bond that keeps us here is strong enough to carry over that bump in the road and then we're all good again. No feelings hurt, points all made, back to business as usual. There have been times when the posts have been infiltrated by people with different agendas and this alienates those who are here in good faith - but they seem to be managed out of the picture nowadays.

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