Overbright HB's

[NightWinder]

(1) IS it possible you have a short in the wire? This can easily happen and get overlooked, a simple loop in the travers befor it gets to you fingertips, can give you enough of a knot to short. What about the wire? It could be inconsistancy in the wire diameter and insulation? Are you getting it from a reputable source?
(2) Coil shape: Haveing a smaller coil shape and the same # of turns, means more focus, versus looser wider coils at the same # of turns(less focus, but definately useful) and can contribute to more hight end because the coil is seeing a smaller part of the string, narrower field with the smaller coil shape. Much like repositioning the pickup closser or further away from the bridge. This is personal preferance, and R&D to what You want for tone. Funny, some guy swear by having a pear shape coil in there strat pu? Damn vintage guys!! Generally, tight and even coil shapes,,, but are by no means a rule,,,there are none!. You'd think 24k would'nt have any highs.....think again,,,,,next
(3) MAterial manipulation: Maybe you are working with high Zinc componients. This is a common plauge that just does'nt stop! Zink will give you the highs,reduced mids and lows. Pole, screws, and the mighty keeper material plays a huge role in the overall finished product. Maddness at 24k....Zinc can be the missing piece. Again, there are no rules.......
(4) Are the bobbins traditional size? Even is there is a 1.5mm difference in height..............You are going to change the coil shape, thus making the pickup sound bright because of the more narrow coil, versus the shorter, fatter coil shape from a shorter bobbin.
Of the 4 mentioned,,,and what you have said,,,I would really start with the Material. Seems you have a good grasp on things, and the short would be unlikely, but can happen.
No ego trippin' I just say'n...........

[ken]

I think the bobbins I used were very close in height to a real PAF, I had some taller than that but I didn't use these because I know about the 'tall bobbin = bright pickup' idea.

I had a customer once that wanted what he called 'Marilyn Monroe' winds... more wire next to the bobbin plates, less in the middle so the coil looked like an hourglass. Really. He bought them and left before I got a chance to hear them, so i don't know what he was after.

I am wondering now if there is a way to test metal parts for zinc? My parts are chromed, but now I'm curious.

Thank you all for the help, I can see you are honestly trying to help and not simply trying to 'blow smoke'. I don't ego trip, it is impossible for anyone to ever have enough friends that I can afford to lose one.

Ken

[David Schwab]

Maybe you are working with high Zinc componients. This is a common plauge that just does'nt stop! Zink will give you the highs, reduced mids and lows. Pole, screws, and the mighty keeper material plays a huge role in the overall finished product. Maddness at 24k....Zinc can be the missing piece. Again, there are no rules.......

Shouldn't you have said "zinc is the missing link"?

But seriously... that's interesting. Do you have any idea why that would be?

I would think the more conductive the base plate the less highs you would get... maybe some of the base plates are more conductive, and that's the darker sounding pickups?

[NightWinder]

The material in a Mixed metal like zinc has more Carbon content,Manganese and phosphorous. There's lots of 10.20, 10.18 , but the old PAfs had Soft iron, or Electrical Iron......and Cold Rolled LAmination Steel- Type 2 which is a specialty product availiable in the Annealed condition with Magnetic properties superior to Type-1. Annealed Product customarily recieves a light temper pass to enhanceflatness and punchablity. LOwer carbon,,,,say 10.03,,,or even 10.06 is too soft, and almost like lead. They used to make motors, generators, and ballast transformers with the soft iron.
Sonically, is definately a difference. The problem is finding the MAterial without breaking your bank!
Brass baseplates would soak that treb up. Crazy!!!

[ken]

Hello everybody...

I apologize to you for the wait, I've been extremely busy with 'life stuff' (issues) with my son.

Here are the numbers you were looking for about my pickups.

This one has a nickelsilver base and a nickelplated nickelsilver cover, 5000 turns each coil, coils wrapped with StewMac paper tape, and is wired as a PAF with both coil start wires tied together. The slug coil finish wire is soldered to the baseplate, and the screw coil finish wire is soldered to the coax hookup wire center conductor.

7.56Kohms DCR both coils as humbucker

7.648 Kohms ACR @ 120Hz
11.234 Kohms ACR @ 1 KHz

2.823 Henries 'series' @ 1 KHz

Thank you for your patience and your help,
Ken

[NightWinder]

What gauge wire? 42 I am assuming. What wire insulation? Different wire insulations achieve different things.....I'm presuming you know this already....but this is very important too.

[ken]

Simple 42 gauge PE, I think it's single build insulation.

I was trying to make a PAF as close as possible, but I was reading the posts on
'alternative' materials like brass bases. How much does brass bases and covers really change the tone?

Ken

[madialex]

Spence, Please dude.

I wasn't being assy about what I said, I was just noticing the disscusion going the route of shorts, extech meter readings etc.. Not much mention at all about different winding methods. I took it as he was looking for a possible winding error or what he might do to wind it differently thats all. Ok Spence, put down the StarBucks triple espresso and back up slowly.

[Spence]

I think to be fair, the Extech will give these different readings in AC resistance and would recommend using a conventional DCR meter. If Ken can't find the answer to this problem there is one other thing that springs to mind. The reel of wire he's using maybe wildly inconsistent in diameter. I have one such reel and it's a total write-off.

Oh and by the way, it's a triple espresso and Red Bull chaser for me

[madialex]

I think to be fair, the Extech will give these different readings in AC resistance and would recommend using a conventional DCR meter. If Ken can't find the answer to this problem there is one other thing that springs to mind. The reel of wire he's using maybe wildly inconsistent in diameter. I have one such reel and it's a total write-off.

Oh and by the way, it's a triple espresso and Red Bull chaser for me

AHHH, Breakfast drinks of Champions

[ken]

The real breakfast of champions... Rice Krispies and beer.
'Snap, crackle, and burp'

As for the caffeination, I can speak from experience that the quickest way to get the heart goin' is washing down a yellow caffeine pill with a large can o' Jolt and a Snickers bar for dessert. I hate coffee, but I need the buzz.

I think one of my problems may be the bobbins themselves... I was reading that
Gibson wound their bobbins 'until full' and was roughly 5000 turns. Now, I wound mine exactly the same way, and my bobbins look like I can squeeze another 1000 turns on easy. I can only guess that the Gib bobbins must be way shorter than what I'm using now.

Ken

[NightWinder]

That brass will soak up some current, and might be what you need to bring down the highs......

[ken]

I've been thinking about this one for awhile...

I am going to start over from scratch, I have a Duncan? HB with the same pole spacing as my parts. I am going to rewind my bobbins, and put them on my Duncan HB with his metal parts and try that out. Then I will change out one part at a time and see what may make the highs come out. This way I may be able to figure out what is wrong. If it was just the coils, just rewinding would make the pickups sound better.

Ken

[David Schwab]

That's a great idea. Also, you can try and swap the bobbins from the bright HB with one of the"normal" HB's and see what you get.

Did we establish that the coils were not in phase? (thin out of phase tone)

[ken]

They were in phase OK, both coils were wound in the same direction with the inside of both coils as the center connection, the slug coil outside wind as ground, the screw outside wind as hot.

One of my friends told me that he had issues with the Al magnets he had, he swapped magnets with a Al Duncan and his pickup got much darker. Why?

Ken