Bad P.a.f

[greenfingers]

Do you or have you ever owned or played a bad paf. As has been said before "not all paf's were good". It takes a honest person to say there original 50's paf does not sound anything other than perfect. What was it in the sound that you did not like or found missing. Did you come to any conclusions what made it sound inferior to others? If so it would be good to hear your views

[Spence]

I have never owned a good PAF. That's not to say there aren't any good ones because of course there were some fabulous PAFs made, some of which have passed through my workshop. The ones I don't like are choked, brittle and shrill. It's almost impossible to get a good tone out of a pickup like that. There are many people floating about the place with opinions on what makes a PAF good or bad. Most people agree to disagree. Personally, I don't listen to any of them because I've done my own extensive work on PAFs rather than be influenced by people who may not have exhausted every aspect of a PAF.
I believe they should have clearly defined notes, chime and an acoustic quality.

[ken]

PAF's are very strange creatures.

I read once that one that sounds great in one certain guitar will sound like crap in another, and it's true. I'm not sure if it's the amount or quality of the parts used in one of these, but still I wonder.

Spence is +1 with his idea of PAF tone.

Maybe part of the problem could be that very few have ever heard a 'real' Gib PAF the way they were originally intended - through a very low pre gain amp like a Gib Scout or Falcon. They were originally designed to be as just as clean as a Fender, but only with no hum. IMHO a pickup that sounds good clean will sound even better overdriven, but to me winding a pickup that will only play overdriven is a recipe for disaster - try the 'double wax potted' pickups in a new Chinese Epi LP sometime.

Thank you,
Ken

[Possum]

...

At the risk of promoting my own work (he he he...) go find me on YouTube and watch the PF Star video. I had a huge stroke of luck and got a real PAF for $400 on Ebay, and a damn good sounding one too. Its in the video. Spence is right, even if his sheep IS ugly, in that they were pretty much intended to sound like a single coil pickup with no hum. I got really close with my version and yesterday I was working on a new Charlie Christian derivation and it suddenly hit me how close the CC pickup sounded to the PAF. You listen to some old blues records and it sounds sometimes like someone is playing a really good PAF and its actually a single coil pickup. Very acoustic sounding, chimey metallic top end, stays clean pretty much when you turn down. The wierd thing I'm finding working on mine is they sound chimey and edgy but they like to have the treble on the amp turned way up and not alot of bass, they can be bright but not shrill. Just kinda verge on shrill but won't actually go there. They also don't like alot of heavy distortion, there's alot of video of Jimmy Page switching to his neck pickup when he's really using alot of distortion and quickly going back to the bridge because it mushes out with too much gain. My favorite tones of his are his cleanish blues solos on the neck, they really sound best played fairly clean from my point of view.

[greenfingers]

clearly defined notes,chime,acoustic quality

Amen to that! There seems to be a element of chaos theory involved in those pickups, Its one thing to make a great sounding pickup,but its another to know why it is sounding better and create it time after time. Like possum i have found that a good pickup can take a lot of treble and use it in a musical way, The setting of not much bass and a good amount of treble was the way they did it in the 60's/70's. Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck were in there own words "treble freaks". But use that setting on some pickups and you wont be doing your ears any favours. Possum you makes a good point with the amount of gain or distortion it can take, a lot of them can sound like a cow if pushed hard MOOOOooooo.....

[David Schwab]

Dutch guitarist Jan Akkerman (best know with the band Focus) always used a treble booster with his Les Pauls, so I guess the consensus back then was they wanted more highs from the humbuckers.

[Spence]

They used treble boosters with a lot of amps but it was of great benefit with VOX amps that sound really dark without them. It was the amp that needed the treble boost.

[greenfingers]

BAD ASS p.a.f

Nothing wrong letting people know your out there Dave. I've seen your videos on youtube before and the new one is excellent. Your choice of example clips is very helpful to illustrate your preferences to what a good sound is. That Peter Green bridge pickup gets my vote, It picks up so much wood from his Paul. Your new pickup sounds very good, it goes to show it is achievable to replicate that tone with good research.One question Dave, what is the difference between the PF Star and your platinum pickup?is it the ability to choose the magnet,wire and wind.

[Possum]

...

Yeah the Peter Green bridge is killer, a customer thinks he was playing the Orange amplifier. The Plats use a common alloy the Stars use expensive hard to get stuff, thats all I'll say there. You can't get there any other way that I know, I've been trying to get this close for years. That stuff just talks and sings, pretty close to what PAFs used. Alot of research is what it takes, really. I think I crawled through every tiny hole in PAF design, licked every magnet and chewed on alot of wire, and ate steel, become "one" with the PAF, may the PAF be with you.....

[greenfingers]

PF Star Wars

Thank you Possum-wan Kenobi, you're my only hope. Yes Peter Green was using the Orange amp's built by Matamp at that time, i live about 10 miles from the mill where they build them, best amps in the galaxy. Spence lived near the mill at one time, wonder if the idea of his supernaturals came to him at this point? You may want to add some fibre to that diet Possum. Thanks for posting back

[Possum]

....

Do you know which Orange amp he was using? Here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxux5LdmjQU
You can see the amps at the very end for a second or two.

Spence was banned from the area, too many female sheep went missing and some of the lambs being born had weird looking faces :-) If Spence would walk by they would tag after him crying Daaaaaaaaaaaaad.....

[greenfingers]

it looks like the Orange/Matamp O.R 100 there is one for sale on ebay at this very moment

[Spence]

Ah,lambing season brings a tear to my weary eyes.....

[kevinT]

i thought that this would catch your eye spence..

[mick]

At least you are not a ram raider Spence...

Nick