Do you Patent your work?

[hasserl]

Or like Harley Davidson wanting to trademark the SOUND of their motorcycles. That's right, the sound. How about DM trademarking the sound of their pickups?

[kevinT]

Or like Harley Davidson wanting to trademark the SOUND of their motorcycles. That's right, the sound. How about DM trademarking the sound of their pickups?

hmmmm...Trademarking noise...

Ok everyone...I have dibs on the sound of banging on trashcan lids.....

[David Schwab]

I hear what you're saying, and have heard something like that before. I'm pretty sure though that some Gibson pickups made well before DM came on the scene were "white, resembling a distinctive shade of cream" - at least by the time the white had aged, etc.

But that's the thing, Gibson never intentionally made cream colored pickups. Even the cream bobbins weren't really cream.

If you decided that your look was bright orange bobbins, and you promoted them as such, then that's your trade mark, and you are allowed to protect it. People would recognize the pickups based on the color, and the last thing you would want would be copy cats making clones to confuse or trick people into thinking those were the real thing.

It's like when Apple went after a company making an iMac clone, back when they were blue and white.

But I think Gibson going after PRS over a single cutaway guitar was a bit overdoing it.

So, I suppose that may have been DMs "trademark" color, but I don't think they originated the idea they were just devious enough to consider protecting it. To me, that's not much different than cases I've heard of where people wanted to trademark certain words ... not based on a logo, but a meaning, etc. Or the onetime practice of people registering domain names so they could bilk those who might have a legitimate desire to use them.

Who originated the idea? Not Gibson. They only used off-white bobbins because their supplier used that color when they ran out of black. Gibson never intended anyone to see the bobbins, so that doesn't count.

And logos are often based on colors too. H&R Block's logo is a green square. Owens-Corning, Inc. trademarked pink for insulation.

If you Google "color as trademark" you can see a lot of arguments on it.

Like:

Protecting a Color as a Trademark

I also found this:

On March 28, 1995, the U.S. Supreme Court held that federal trademark law "permits the registration of a trademark that consists, purely and simply, of a color."

There's a Wikipedia article here:

Color Trademark


Companies trade mark words and phrases all the time. Here's a good example: Adrenaline is a natural hormone made by the body. When I was growing up adrenaline was what it was called. After all it's made in the adrenal glands. Now doctors in the US call it epinephrine. Why? In 1901 Jokichi Takamine prepared a pure extract of the active principle from the adrenal gland and patented it. Parke, Davis & Co marketed his extract, and because they used the proprietary name Adrenalin, epinephrine became the generic name in the US. Parke, Davis didn't trade mark the name, but I guess people assumed they did. It's till adrenalin outside the US.

That's crazy, but that's what happened. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but it's the way thing are done, and no one has challenged it.

IAt least with a silhouette like the Fender headstock I think it was pretty much uniquely theirs in the beginning (haven't looked into that deeply). I don't like that any better, but it's more understandable I guess.

Bigsby actually used that headstock shape first in 1947, and both Bigsby and Fender got it from some old Croatian acoustic guitars they had seen. The story goes that some touring troop of guitarists had come over from Europe playing guitars with that headstock shape, or something like that. Merle Travis also said he designed that head when he had Bigsby make his guitar.

IYeah, I guess the cream thing is a dead horse but it still chaps my shorts.

Keep in mind that both Bill Lawrence and Carvin have made, or currently make double cream bobbin pickups. So as long as you aren't using 12 round screw poles, you are in the clear!

It might be argued that a typical PAF style screw/stud arraignment is exempt, since DiMarzio's pickups had the allan screws on both coils.

Also, if your bobbins were square on the ends, instead of the usual Gibson shape, you can use cream until the cows come home. Just be creative. Put a red stripe on them or something.

Or do like Duncan, and sell the pickups with unsoldered covers.

Personally I think cream bobbins are ugly... but I guess they fit with some hardware/trim. I painted my SDHB white!

[SkinnyWire]

Or like Harley Davidson wanting to trademark the SOUND of their motorcycles. That's right, the sound. How about DM trademarking the sound of their pickups?

Man, I was trying to recall this one but couldn't dig it from the memory banks. I remember when they tried to do this. Trademarking at ludicrous speed.

[SkinnyWire]

But that's the thing, Gibson never intentionally made cream colored pickups. Even the cream bobbins weren't really cream.

If you decided that your look was bright orange bobbins, and you promoted them as such, then that's your trade mark, and you are allowed to protect it. People would recognize the pickups based on the color, and the last thing you would want would be copy cats making clones to confuse or trick people into thinking those were the real thing.

It's like when Apple went after a company making an iMac clone, back when they were blue and white.

But I think Gibson going after PRS over a single cutaway guitar was a bit overdoing it.



Who originated the idea? Not Gibson. They only used off-white bobbins because their supplier used that color when they ran out of black. Gibson never intended anyone to see the bobbins, so that doesn't count.

And logos are often based on colors too. H&R Block's logo is a green square. Owens-Corning, Inc. trademarked pink for insulation.

If you Google "color as trademark" you can see a lot of arguments on it.

Like:

Protecting a Color as a Trademark

I also found this:



There's a Wikipedia article here:

Color Trademark


Companies trade mark words and phrases all the time. Here's a good example: Adrenaline is a natural hormone made by the body. When I was growing up adrenaline was what it was called. After all it's made in the adrenal glands. Now doctors in the US call it epinephrine. Why? In 1901 Jokichi Takamine prepared a pure extract of the active principle from the adrenal gland and patented it. Parke, Davis & Co marketed his extract, and because they used the proprietary name Adrenalin, epinephrine became the generic name in the US. Parke, Davis didn't trade mark the name, but I guess people assumed they did. It's till adrenalin outside the US.

That's crazy, but that's what happened. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but it's the way thing are done, and no one has challenged it.



Bigsby actually used that headstock shape first in 1947, and both Bigsby and Fender got it from some old Croatian acoustic guitars they had seen. The story goes that some touring troop of guitarists had come over from Europe playing guitars with that headstock shape, or something like that. Merle Travis also said he designed that head when he had Bigsby make his guitar.



Keep in mind that both Bill Lawrence and Carvin have made, or currently make double cream bobbin pickups. So as long as you aren't using 12 round screw poles, you are in the clear!

It might be argued that a typical PAF style screw/stud arraignment is exempt, since DiMarzio's pickups had the allan screws on both coils.

Also, if your bobbins were square on the ends, instead of the usual Gibson shape, you can use cream until the cows come home. Just be creative. Put a red stripe on them or something.

Or do like Duncan, and sell the pickups with unsoldered covers.

Personally I think cream bobbins are ugly... but I guess they fit with some hardware/trim. I painted my SDHB white!

Wow. Lot's of stuff there. A DM attack dog contacted me a few years ago in what I would call a threatening manner over some double creams I had on my website. As you probably can surmise, the hue was different than theirs but "yellow, resembling a distinctive shade of cream" covers a pretty broad range. I happen to like the look of double cream, but probably no more so than double white. In the end, the tone should override the color and most folks will give in to black or white.

Regarding your initial comments, I happen to love the color red and searched for a long time for a source for red humbucker bobbins. I'd contracted a company to laser cut red forbon and even asked SD if they'd sell me some (I think I could hear the laughter in the e-mail response). I'd get a kick out of red or bright orange, but the demand for it would be minimal. Most customers stick with the basics and black is what I sell most. In the end, I don't think I'd mind someone making the same color as I'd hope the resultant sound would be the determining factor for sales.

[David Schwab]

After all these years DiMarzio should just chill out.... I'm certainly not defending them, but I realize what their point is from having seen them when they first hit the market.

I even went out of my way to replace the cream covers on the Model P I had with black ones, because it was too out of place on the bass, and was such an advertisement!

[Possum]

DM attack dog?

So what did you do? Did you pull the image and offering off your website or tell them something rude?

[SkinnyWire]

So what did you do? Did you pull the image and offering off your website or tell them something rude?

I pulled the image and no longer advertise nor sell double cream pickups. The truth is never rude when you tell it, eh? Only when it's revealed when you least expect it.

[David Schwab]

Just to add to my previous story about having my design stolen by American Showster... I was looking through some patent PDF's I have, and I realized that the fucker actually patented my idea after I left the company!

Patent #4919029 in case anyone is interested!

And those were the guitars Kramer made...

So if you have an idea, I'd protect it before someone else makes money off it.

[David Schwab]

I pulled the image and no longer advertise nor sell double cream pickups. The truth is never rude when you tell it, eh? Only when it's revealed when you least expect it.

Cream and brown zebra would be a nice alternative to cream and black... it's softer looking than black, while not being double cream. Even a double light brown (not a shade of yellow) would be cool.