Good PAF tone

[RedHouse]

Yeah Communication Breakdown was a tele too. I have a Marshall Studio 15, they only made about 500 of them, have any of you Marshallheads ever played one of these and are they a typical Marshall tone in a small box or just a unique amp of its own? Power tubes are 6V6's....

I too have played one recording some stuff, while they do sound good for what they are, they're not the "Marshall" sound normally associated with the JTM45 or 1959SL or JCM800 amp's.
(not just the amplifier inside, but also because of the cabinet and speaker)

They're not bad for the money though, which is what their target market was. I'd rather have a Studio 15 than a Fender Frontman 15.

Which brings up another factor that I think is very important when deciding if a pickup sounds like so-n-so's, one really needs a similar rig, ...guitar...and...at least the same type amp, and same speakers/cab's gets much more valid critique. When I sold off my Marshalls I kept my 1960A cabinet loaded with 30's, it does Page and Allman/Betts really good.

Cracks me up when people want to put a $300 set of pickups into a $399 Epi Les Paul and say to you "I want to sound like Jimmy Page in LZ-4", oh yeah.

Testing a wind (PAF) against Jimmy Page's live sound needs to have at least an R9 and a Plexi/Ali amp to do a proper audition, IMHO, and so I do have both and am super-critical of my winds when shooting for that sound, so much so, I don't think I'm there, getting closer but have much more work to do.

[greenfingers]

Do you happen to have a copy of that magazine on hand? perhaps you might care to scan the article and email me, or even photocopy it and sent it to me Mum in Scotland?

(actually my wife's Mum, but she's really cool and makes me feel like my own mum)

I did some googl'ing for it and just can't hit on it well enough to get pic's.

If you leave me your email address in the private message area I'll try and send you a copy, I just have to set up the scanner, aint used it for a bit.

[David Schwab]

Cracks me up when people want to put a $300 set of pickups into a $399 Epi Les Paul and say to you "I want to sound like Jimmy Page in LZ-4", oh yeah.

Then sell them a $300 set of pickups to put in a $199 Squire Tele..

[greenfingers]

To be fair a good set of pickups will give even the cheapest plank of wood a better sound than the ones that come with them,

To sound like Jimmy you apparentley have to do a deal with the Devil

[Possum]

...

The test guitars I used in my videos were a $200 Stellar from Ebay and a Chinese Epiphone plain top LP. With that set in there and rewiring the guitars completely with new pots and caps they sound every bit as good as way more expensive guitars, in fact the Stellar beats the crap out of the Epiphone, $200, nitro finished with hardshell case and a great player. Pickups were the biggest single thing that made those old burst sound the way they did, its why they attracted the blues rock players, the pickup tone. Don't forget that alot of those old LP's weren't really built very well, one of my customers just wrote me and had played and examined a '58 LP for a couple hours and told me the new Gibsons are built way better, the only redeeming feature he found were the pickups on it sounded great....

[Possum]

...

So, ok here's another Marshall question. What is the minimum amount of money I could spend and get a vintage Marshall tone with the lowest power and least amount of money? Anything over 40 watts in bluestown Portland is overkill so its likely if I got something like this it'd never leave home and would probably be a prime wife-annoyer :-)

[dai h.]

these days IMO you could probably do quite well with a clone with cloned transformers. As far as the amp, who is your intended Marshall playing audience/customer base? Say, if the majority are trying to clone early Clapton, then I suppose it would make sense to have a Bluesbreakers clone for example and so on.

[Possum]

....

well what do mainstream rock guys use now days in Marshalls? Bluesbreakers are EL84's right?

[dai h.]

lol no, Bluesbreakers are KT66. Mainstream rock guys I have no idea, but generally people into Marshalls consider the old ones superior. An "old one" can be relative though, since for a 20 year old mid '70s JMP series or '80 JCM800s could seem "old" and "vintage".

[David Schwab]

I was just looking on the Marshall site...

They list the 1962 Blues Breaker as using two 5881 tubes.

I see EL-34's in the JVM series.

The Super 100JH Hendrix amp, and JTM45/100 uses KT-66's.

The Lemmy amp uses EL-34's.

The 1959RR Randy Rhoads amp uses EL-34's.

The hand wired series 1959HW and 2061X use EL-34's, and the 1974X uses EL-84's.

And the Kerry King JCM800 based head uses KT-88's.

I didn't realize they have so many models... and that's just a sampling.

[dai h.]

They list the 1962 Blues Breaker as using two 5881 tubes.

don't know about the most recent ones, but the "5881" Marshall used for the reissues are a Russian 6L6 type that isn't really the same thing as a real (American) 5881 (though apparently a tough good tube). The originals apparently used American 5881 very early on (more for the prototype IIRC) but changed to local production GEC (General Electric Company of England) KT66. Really the Marshall was a copy of the 5F6-A Bassman but it came out a bit different owing to some of the different parts and speaker(s) used. As far as KT66, currently there are a couple of Russian ones, a Slovakian one, and a Chinese version available, though with modern tubes there is no guarantee that the tube is really an equivalent to originals.

[greenfingers]

So, ok here's another Marshall question. What is the minimum amount of money I could spend and get a vintage Marshall tone with the lowest power and least amount of money? Anything over 40 watts in bluestown Portland is overkill so its likely if I got something like this it'd never leave home and would probably be a prime wife-annoyer :-)

for a low volume vintage Marshall tone you may want to look at the marshall 1974X combo, and rated output is 18 watt, Bad thing for the piggy bank is that it is "hand wired" ($1,400-1,800) or around that, i'm sure you could find one for less, there is also the 2061x head at 20 watts, around the same price but then you have to get a cab if you ain't got one already. Also have a look at the new vintage modern 2266c 50 watt 2x12" combo, it has a master vol to turn down if all the oldguard are out in bluestown, then you can turn it up when they go home. The vintage modern range are based on the sound of the (super 100 model) so its aimed at the 60's/70's british blues rock type of thing. these amps also use the KT66's in the power amp stage.

[David Schwab]

don't know about the most recent ones, but the "5881" Marshall used for the reissues are a Russian 6L6 type that isn't really the same thing as a real (American) 5881 (though apparently a tough good tube). The originals apparently used American 5881 very early on (more for the prototype IIRC) but changed to local production GEC (General Electric Company of England) KT66. Really the Marshall was a copy of the 5F6-A Bassman but it came out a bit different owing to some of the different parts and speaker(s) used. As far as KT66, currently there are a couple of Russian ones, a Slovakian one, and a Chinese version available, though with modern tubes there is no guarantee that the tube is really an equivalent to originals.

I have a Mesa 400+ bass amp, and that used to come with 5881's, but mine has 6L6's. My Mesa has Sovtec preamp tubes and Ruby power tubes. I'm not sure that's what I would have put in there, but I have yet to have it retubed. It could stand to be a bit tighter sounding. I don't care for overly tubey sounding bass amps.

I thought it was odd to see the 5881 in the Blues Breaker. Seems like such an American amp tube.

[RedHouse]

If you leave me your email address in the private message area I'll try and send you a copy, I just have to set up the scanner, aint used it for a bit.

Will do, and thanks-a-million!

...with that set in there and rewiring the guitars completely with new pots and caps they sound every bit as good as way more expensive guitars...

I totally disagree, in a kind, and kum-by-yah kind of way.
(please take no offense, it's only my opinion)

lol no, Bluesbreakers are KT66...

LOL, someone here "corrected" me on this in another thread a while back, so I guess a picture is in order.

Here is a gut-shot of an original bluesbreaker in very excellent condition, one can clearly see the EL84's, they are the two long tubes in the center of the chassis just to the right of the can capacitor, these are not KT66's, 5881', 6L6's, or any Octal tube, these are 9-pin EL84's and the amp put's out roughly 18w.



Dai, I think you might be thinking of the original JTM45 circuit (which was as you said a copy of Fender's 5F6 Bassman circuit) perhaps mixing it up with the Bluesbreaker combo amp, they were not the same amps. The JTM45 (JTM50 and JTM100) did use KT66's early on (Clapton had those in Cream) and they went to EL34's later on.

...but generally people into Marshalls consider the old ones superior. An "old one" can be relative though, since for a 20 year old mid '70s JMP series or '80 JCM800s could seem "old" and "vintage".

Moving away from the Clapton/Bluesbreaker thing, in Marshall circles the "old ones" are usually considered the pre-reissue models from the 60's and 70's and early 80's, they are usually the 100w models and generally referred to in two catagory's, the 4-input style Plexi/Ali (no-master volume) type's such as the JTM45, JTM50, JTM100, 1959SL (super lead) etc, and the JMP50, JMP100 and the JCM800, these are the most used "Rock" amps in history used on most Marshall powered recording in the last 40 years.

(note: the JMP series came in both MV and non-MV types with the same designation "Mark-IV")

[vonterk]

So, ok here's another Marshall question. What is the minimum amount of money I could spend and get a vintage Marshall tone with the lowest power and least amount of money? Anything over 40 watts in bluestown Portland is overkill so its likely if I got something like this it'd never leave home and would probably be a prime wife-annoyer :-)

You can always build your own amp.

http://www.18watt.com - has a lot of great info, mainly dealing with 18 watt Marshall's (hence the name ) but they also have links to other sites

http://www.ax84.com/ - has lots of great projects many of them low wattage clones. Be sure to check out the Archived Projects section.