Good PAF tone

[RedHouse]

what I'm saying is the bassman-type combo amp is the one I've understood to be a "Bluesbreaker", then I cited some sources. How exactly have you "shown" the 18-watter is a "Bluesbreaker"??? You came to think of it yourself that it was a "Bluesbreaker" because you thought it was used on the Bluesbreakers album? Besides for the fact that the different amps do look quite similar (but lots of other Marshalls do as well) where is the evidence? If the moniker is after the amp used on the album there can only be one "Bluesbreaker" (unless of course Clapton used both at the same time--but that sounds unlikely). I've been perfectly willing to accept that you may have been right from the very beginning but I have seeing nothing from you that convinces me.



I find it a little extraordinary that you've never even seen one, can't find one, nor have a chassis pic or two while making your argument and I'm feeling at times I'm doing your research for you, but for the sake of the discussion here is one you can look at.

pic of original JTM45/Bluesbreaker:

http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/gr...os/browse/c32a

Dai, you're WAY too hostile over this, can ya chill a bit? I don't have to prove anything to you, this is a public forum, and I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are, nothing more nothing less.


Anyway the link doesn't get me any pic, it asks for a login which I don't have for your Yahoo site, can you post it elsewhere (without feeling as though you're hard-done-by)?

[RedHouse]

this is a 1962 JTM 45 model combo form 1966 AKA "Bluesbreaker" wich looks like it has KT66's in.

Thanks, that is perfect, now I can die a peaceful death.

[Possum]

....

Shit, it looks like the JTM45 reissues are wrong too, they use 5881 power tubes. On Ebay there is a vinage bluesbreaker with a shot of the wiring:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1960s-Ma...em330253446498

[greenfingers]

Have any of you seen or used these covers from Montreux guitars? they are the timemachine line, not the retro vibe. what do you think? I like the early covers with the sharper edge, they just look right.

[RedHouse]

this is a 1962 JTM 45 model combo form 1966 AKA "Bluesbreaker" wich looks like it has KT66's in.

and the one off eBay that Possum just mentioned:


Below is a close-up pic of a (verified) '65 JTM45 with KT66's:



It appears the JTM45 combo chassis(s) are made to accomodate the extra parts, not so
much like tossing a JTM45 into a combo cabinet.

[RedHouse]

And the pic's are rollin-in, a friend just sent me this one, said it's of a verified 65 Bluesbreaker with KT66's:


jeez, check out those old Celestions!

Very cool, mystery over, life is good, thanks all, and specially you Dai.

I still wonder what's up with the EL34 combo's (model#'s etc ...why)

[dai h.]

Dai, you're WAY too hostile over this, can ya chill a bit? I don't have to prove anything to you, this is a public forum, and I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are, nothing more nothing less.

so your rationalization is that because this is a public forum though there is evidence to the contrary, sources, etc. you personally don't have any responsibility in giving evidence, citing sources and everyone should just accept your word for it without seeing anything to back it up? Okay, maybe you're some sort of uberbeing and I shouldn't be messing with you trying to question your wisdom asking for sources, rationale, how you arrived at conclusions or something.

Anyway the link doesn't get me any pic, it asks for a login which I don't have for your Yahoo site, can you post it elsewhere (without feeling as though you're hard-done-by)?

so you managed to find a pic and solve a mystery that wasn't. Maybe you could have researched this information before when someone else "corrected" you previously in this thread. I have a Guitar World mag. from 1987 with an article by Doyle making the Bluesbreaker amp to JTM45/Bluesbreaker model 1961 and 1962 connection so for at least 21 years (or earlier) that's not been a revelation. I assumed "JTM45/Bluesbreaker" was common knowledge for Marshall fans but what do I know.

[RedHouse]

Dai, again, you're WAY too hostile over this, it's a public forum, take a deep breath and try to relax.

You're posts smack of a person feeling personally or mentally threatened by my opinions, this is entirely out-of-scope for a public forum such as this, you might want to loose that approach.

Again, thank you for your input to my posts, all input is appreciated from my part, I have no ill will toward you, so go in peace fellow forum member.

[MattT]

Redhouse,
My limited understanding is that the 'big octal' combos often (or always?) had tremolo...so that's why you see extra knobs, an extra preamp tube, etc.

None of these were made as 'Bluesbreakers'...that's just a nickname that came about later...just like the heads weren't 'plexis' either...it's just a nickname that came about later. I always thought of the 'JTM45-ish' combos as Bluesbreakers and the others as 18W combos but that's just the nickname I associated with them. If somebody wants to call them 'Redfixers' that OK with me...and ya doesn't have to call 'em Johnson.

FWIW, I like dark-ish tones so I like the Bluesbreaker tones (but I like the other guy's mentioned too...although I was a HUGE Led Zep fan I was never a big fan of most of JP's guitar tones...Rev Billy G is a different story...love his tones). But the point I wanted to make is that IMO you can't make many of these dark-ish tones work unless you start with a bright, clear tone. Since I like dark-ish tones this is one reason I like PAF-ish pickups.

I don't know where I saw it but there was a video of Dickey Betts playing that Goldtop and the tone in that video was just sublime.

[greenfingers]

jerry springer (final thoughts)

The final whistle has gone on the amp thing now i hope, so all is right with the world. i thing you should kiss and make up, i bet you both love marshall's so thats something you can agree on....... "Take care of your self and each other"

[greenfingers]

Redhouse,
My limited understanding is that the 'big octal' combos often (or always?) had tremolo...so that's why you see extra knobs, an extra preamp tube, etc.

None of these were made as 'Bluesbreakers'...that's just a nickname that came about later...just like the heads weren't 'plexis' either...it's just a nickname that came about later. I always thought of the 'JTM45-ish' combos as Bluesbreakers and the others as 18W combos but that's just the nickname I associated with them. If somebody wants to call them 'Redfixers' that OK with me...and ya doesn't have to call 'em Johnson.

FWIW, I like dark-ish tones so I like the Bluesbreaker tones (but I like the other guy's mentioned too...although I was a HUGE Led Zep fan I was never a big fan of most of JP's guitar tones...Rev Billy G is a different story...love his tones). But the point I wanted to make is that IMO you can't make many of these dark-ish tones work unless you start with a bright, clear tone. Since I like dark-ish tones this is one reason I like PAF-ish pickups.

I don't know where I saw it but there was a video of Dickey Betts playing that Goldtop and the tone in that video was just sublime.

yea "Blusebreaker" was just a nickname given to the amp by the assocation with Eric, At no point in time, with me that is, were the 1959 18-watt combo assocated with Eric and therefore the Bluesbreaker nickname.

Like you i am a huge Led Zeppelin fan, and i understand people not liking his tone because it does not sound like the archetypal sound associated with the les paul, But that is what i like about it, it fits the Led Zeppelin sound, it does not over-power the drum's bass or vocals it sits well in the mix. To my mind Jimmy's first love was how the band sound's as a group, and not how he sounded compared to other Les paul user's... It sounds like you are a man firmly on the DARK SIDE

[MattT]

Sort of a coinkydink that I just came across this video of one of Dickey's LPs into a 1965 JTM45. I dunno anything about the guitar but this sounds pretty good.

EDIT: I read elsewhere that the Betts/Toler LP in the video above is the '58 GT that Dickey had...he gave/traded it to Dan Toler in '78 and Toler had it refin'd. That video is allegedly with the original '58 PAFs.

[greenfingers]

Oooooh that's a nice find you got there MattT. sounds nice, the other clips are nice too. shame i cant say the same about the re-fin on that guitar like you said it had. it is AWFUL!.

[Possum]

...

Wow he sure has the treble turned down somewhere, but that Clapton tone thing is there. Are those amps really that dark?

[Possum]

Bridge test....

OK, after watching that video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA0LtElaUIo

I thought I would try my 8.6K bridge test and try to play some of those PG licks. This is through my Victoria Regal II with one single EL84 intalled. This has a 15" speaker in it so its not too close to that JM45 Bluesbuster amp. But this should give you an idea of how my bridge test compares with the Betts guitar.
Also bear in mind I am a recording moron, I tried micing the amp up close off center from the voice coil and the recorded tone sucked. This one was done several feet away off center with maybe too much treble, I need to get a better mic so any suggestions on how to record this stuff to computer with what type of mic would be appreciated, my mic is a powered video camera mic, not bad but not good either. Here's the bridge sample: