3-Simple Letters-IMO

[Ward]

Well I "think" my strat singles sound better after an hour or so's playing. Just something I've noticed. Of course it's probably more that by then I've blown my ears what's left of em.

[Stratz]

IMO
If you can buy Poly wire with the same OD & the same bare wire diameter & same thickness of the insulation as a good size PE ,It will have & little different tone & probably closer ,tonewise to PE wire
Most of the Poly has a little thicker insulation & thats why some winders has it specially made ,I'd like to try Mr Candy's poly but it's $$$

I have identical poly and PE, same bare wire pulled through the same die and they sound much different to me.

Oops, I forgot to say "IMO"

My Father has been winding since the early 60's and he has a lot of old PE and HF from the 60's and probably older.
I gave him 6 lbs of #42 poly about 8 years ago. He still hasn't unwrapped the spool.

[David Schwab]

IMO, Poly and PE of the same dimensions sound quite different.
IMO, Poly sounds like crap compared to PE

I've been dying to say that

I like this thread

Now can you prove it?

And what does crap sound like? What quality is missing in the poly wire?

[David Schwab]

No Argument, no debate, I stated my opinion.

Actually, and to be pedantic for a moment, you did not state your opinion. You stated a tangible, that pickups are brighter with maple spacers. That can be proven.

The definition of an opinion is: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

No if it's not based on facts, than you think it sounds brighter. But it doesn't mean it is.

Here's an opinion; I don't like wooden knobs on guitars, or that fake masked off binding that PRS does. In my opinion those things are ugly. That's my opinion. That's subjective.

Now if I said that wooden knobs make the guitar sound better, that's not an opinion. See how that works?

[David Schwab]

This has happened quite a bit here lately, just finished winding & assemble a few buckers & p-90's unpotted (more noticeable in hotter winds & hotter magnets A5, A8's than vintage), & try it & the tone is really harsh kind of scooped
& after playing it for a while & a couple of hours pass to even a couple of days ,you notice the tone smoothe out & it's not so harsh
IMO something happens ..I Have not made any clips, & I'm not that curious & just too busy to do so .........Six months...... That would be tough to prove

Right, but here's the thing; sometimes you think it sounds different. I stated that in that thread. I have wound a pickup, put it in my bass, and recoded it, and really didn't like it. I came back the next day and it sounded fine. But, it sounded exactly the same as the recording. So what happened was my perception changed. I might have been expecting something else, and didn't get it. I came back with fresh ears and it wasn't so bad. Because I was not comparing it to some ideal in my head. This also happens when you are mixing down recordings. You get tired and can't hear correctly.

Now if there is some force at work changing things, we should be able to unchange them. What would it be? Pole piece screws changing their magnetic domains? Swap in new screws of the same type. You get the idea.

[David Schwab]

I have identical poly and PE, same bare wire pulled through the same die and they sound much different to me.

Oops, I forgot to say "IMO"

My Father has been winding since the early 60's and he has a lot of old PE and HF from the 60's and probably older.
I gave him 6 lbs of #42 poly about 8 years ago. He still hasn't unwrapped the spool.

You missed the point. It has nothing to do with being "pulled through the same die", the insulation thickness is different. We have also discussed the possibility that is has a different dielectric constant. Other than those two things, what would be different?

If you can't wind a great sounding pickup with poly, something is wrong.

And, can you prove they are identical?

[rjb]

Now if I said that wooden knobs make the guitar sound better, that's not an opinion. See how that works?

Of course that's not an opinion; that's a fact.
Wooden knobs do make a guitar sound better.
But they have to be solid wood, not laminate.
Laminate knobs block proper chi flow.

IMO, the very best sounding guitars incorporate a perfect balance of the five life energies water, tree, fire, earth, and metal.

Where's the "tongue in cheek" smiley?
-rb

[David Schwab]

Of course that's not an opinion; that's a fact.
Wooden knobs do make a guitar sound better.
But they have to be solid wood, not laminate.
Laminate knobs block proper chi flow.

You mean these wooden knobs. Only $485!

Wooden Knobs For Your Stereo

The point here is the micro vibrations created by the volume pots and knobs find their way into the delicate signal path and cause degradation (Bad vibrations equal bad sound). With the signature knobs micro vibrations from the C37 concept of wood, bronze and the lacquer itself compensate for the volume pots and provide (Good Vibrations) our ear/brain combination like to hear... way better sound!!

Oh and the C37 was a special lacquer that you paint on the knobs to make them sound better. Woo hoo!

Oh and this:

Altmann Tube-O-Lator Lacquer

Lacquer that makes your plastic ICs sound like tubes!

[Stratz]

Now can you prove it?

And what does crap sound like?

I don't have to prove it, this the "IMO" thread.

Crap sounds like anything wound with poly.

You missed the point. It has nothing to do with being "pulled through the same die", the insulation thickness is different.

The wire was made to the exact same specs from the same bare copper, same dies. I watched the process first hand and it was explained to me that both the PE and poly were identical in diameter when finished.

I really like the sound of PE, yes, that's an opinion. I can almost always tell when I hear a PE pickup. It has a very distinct sound. If I hear a crappy sounding pickup I just figure it's poly.
Sure, it's dirt cheap and very easy to work with but I don't like the sound of the stuff at all. IMO of course.

If you can't wind a great sounding pickup with poly, something is wrong.

"Great sounding" is subjective but IMO, poly sounds lifeless and I'd be willing to bet that many would agree with me

[copperheadroads]

I don't have to prove it, this the "IMO" thread.

Crap sounds like anything wound with poly.
[/B], poly sounds lifeless and I'd be willing to bet that many would agree with me

Poly sound brighter & squeakier so adjust winding techniques & you can make some very nice sounding pickups .
IMO If you think the wire is lifeless........Well that is controlled by the pressure between your thumb & you index finger or a tensioning device

[Stratz]

IMO If you think the wire is lifeless........Well that is controlled by the pressure between your thumb & you index finger or a tensioning device

Lifeless compared to PE. IMO, of course.

Thanks for that "pressure" tip. I guess now I can use all the poly that's been sitting here collecting dust for decades because I cant seem to make a working solder joint with the PE that I have. Maybe it's just defective

[copperheadroads]

Lifeless compared to PE. IMO, of course.

Thanks for that "pressure" tip. I guess now I can use all the poly that's been sitting here collecting dust for decades because I cant seem to make a working solder joint with the PE that I have. Maybe it's just defective

I just don't know how you can say it's "Lifeless". In other words PE sounds livelier than poly ? .on the contrary
PE has a more "vintage" or "Old" tone ,more woody organic tone, but Poly sounds brighter,& depending on the pickup design ,It can sound harsher ,but poly does sound good with certain pickup designs (Anyway I can justify not paying the almost 3 times the price for PE ,I'm gonna try )
I'm not suggesting that Poly sounds better or you can make really replicate the tone of PE with poly
I love the sound of PE & I have used several spools
I just cant figure how it's lifeless

[big_teee]

I like having both types of wire.
I have a spool of SPN, and a Spool of SPE.
They sound a lot different.
Here is IMO why.
Here are the specs of each.
Brand Type Bare OD Ohms/10ft
Rea Label 42 Brown Plain Enamel .002526 .002830 16.1
Essex Soderon 42 Red SPN ? .002650 16.5

Though they are close in Ohms per 10 feet, they are very different in Outside Diameter, OD.
I find it very useful to record you wire specs on a chart.
Here is one I made. Some of my chart data is incomplete.

T
** my headings didn't come out in the right place, See Chart, it is all on the chart.

[rjb]

You mean these wooden knobs. Only $485!
Wooden Knobs For Your Stereo

What a ripoff. Those knobs are made wrong!
You can clearly see the grain pattern *across* the face of the knob.
IMO, that pattern blocks the chi's natural circular flow, deadening the tone.
Wooden knobs should be hand-carved from branches, so that the annular rings form a "bullseye" pattern.
Avoid oversized knobs, as too many rings overemphasize the lower mids.

-rb

[Stratz]

I just don't know how you can say it's "Lifeless". In other words PE sounds livelier than poly ? .on the contrary
PE has a more "vintage" or "Old" tone ,more woody organic tone, but Poly sounds brighter,& depending on the pickup design ,It can sound harsher ,but poly does sound good with certain pickup designs (Anyway I can justify not paying the almost 3 times the price for PE ,I'm gonna try )
I'm not suggesting that Poly sounds better or you can make really replicate the tone of PE with poly
I love the sound of PE & I have used several spools
I just cant figure how it's lifeless

You forgot to say "IMO"

The only way I can describe PE (other than it's distinctive sound) is like listening to a really well produced album on a turntable with all analog equipment. while poly sounds like a CD played through a decent solid state sound system.
Yes, both types have their place but IMO the PE has so much more to it.