3-Simple Letters-IMO

[David Schwab]

I don't have to prove it, this the "IMO" thread.

Then I say you making up things. That's my opinion.

The wire was made to the exact same specs from the same bare copper, same dies. I watched the process first hand and it was explained to me that both the PE and poly were identical in diameter when finished.

Unless you measure them you do not know that they are the same diameter. You are making assumptions. Every roll of wire changes, and PE and poly don't build the same.

I really like the sound of PE, yes, that's an opinion. I can almost always tell when I hear a PE pickup. It has a very distinct sound. If I hear a crappy sounding pickup I just figure it's poly.
Sure, it's dirt cheap and very easy to work with but I don't like the sound of the stuff at all. IMO of course.

Magnet wire is not dirt cheap. Now let's see if you could dell the difference in a double blind test!

Now what is the tone of PE that you like? Can you explain it? What sounds different? You haven't answered any of those questions.

[David Schwab]

Poly sound brighter & squeakier so adjust winding techniques & you can make some very nice sounding pickups .
IMO If you think the wire is lifeless........Well that is controlled by the pressure between your thumb & you index finger or a tensioning device

There you go. Like I said, if you can't wind a good sounding pickup with poly, then you can't wind a good sounding pickup.

[David Schwab]

The only way I can describe PE (other than it's distinctive sound) is like listening to a really well produced album on a turntable with all analog equipment. while poly sounds like a CD played through a decent solid state sound system.

So PE sounds dull and mushy?

I never get the people who think vinyl sounds good. It sounds like crap compared to a good CD. Just to get the signal on the vinyl, it had to be trampled on by the record cutting amp. The roll off the low end and the high end transients are lost compared to the master tape. Then they try and reconstruct the low end with the phono EQ. It's antiquated garbage. And that's my opinion. All you have to do is A/B a fresh vinyl record against the same CD to hear the difference. People had some objections to early CDs because they were using tapes mastered for vinyl and the A/D converters were not as good. But now a CD sounds like you are sitting int he recording studio listening to the playback, while a vinyl record sounds like that playback from a different room with the door closed. lol

Oh and solid state is analog.

[copperheadroads]

There you go. Like I said, if you can't wind a good sounding pickup with poly, then you can't wind a good sounding pickup.

I been winding a bunch of vintage humbuckers here lately with poly wire & they do sound good (A little harsher than I like ) but still nice & comparable to few Duncans I have

[Stratz]

Then I say you making up things. That's my opinion.



Unless you measure them you do not know that they are the same diameter. You are making assumptions. Every roll of wire changes, and PE and poly don't build the same.



Magnet wire is not dirt cheap. Now let's see if you could dell the difference in a double blind test!

Now what is the tone of PE that you like? Can you explain it? What sounds different? You haven't answered any of those questions.

David, you are so very wrong on many of your statements I dont know where to start and I really dont even want to bother.

Have you ever even used anything other than poly? I think I recall reading that you've never used Formvar. Have you ever used PE?

Years ago when I bought some of the wire I still use today I stood there while they were coating the wire. I saw my wire laser measured when I came back to pick some up.

I have more wire than I will probably ever use and my father has at least 10X what I have. Much of it direct from George Fullerton. All I would need to do is ask him for it and he would ship it to me.

But even today I can still get 42/43 single poly for less than $10 lb and 42/43 PE for $25 lb no matter if I needed 1 pound or 200lbs. Please don't ask where it comes from because I wont say.

My Father has a Mitutoyo digital mic that will measure to 0.00005 Inch. I've used it many times on my wire so I know exactly what my wire measures.

I don't believe anybody has asked me for an example as you stated above but if you want a good example of my definition of PE wire, Jimi Hendrix, Bold as Love. Let me see you get that sound from poly.

I have this funny feeling that you would prefer solid state over a valve amp for six string guitar...... that would explain a lot

Again, Have you ever used Plain Enamel wire?

[big_teee]

Here we go with all the Negativity again.
Can't we just post and converse, and be friendly, without all the 50 Questions, and the negativity.
We could really have a nice Sub-Forum Category Here, if we could quit all the Interrogation.
What purpose does the interrogation serve, but to shut everyone up, and run off good members?
Go and do that on the main Forum.
That is why we wanted this area, was to get away from all of that.
I for one just want to relax and have fun here.
Terry

[Stratz]

Sorry Terry but when people make blind assumptions like the one quoted below I will speak in my defense.

There you go. Like I said, if you can't wind a good sounding pickup with poly, then you can't wind a good sounding pickup.

[Ward]

It's so easy to ruffle feathers with the written word. I don't wind when people argue about "stuff" but it's pretty ridiculous having to watch people defending their egos and as I said, it's real easy to attack people even if you hadn't intended, you see it everywhere on these stupid bloody forums, it's no wonder we never get any real info here. Now where's my chair to hide under.

[rjb]

All you have to do is A/B a fresh vinyl record against the same CD to hear the difference.

I have A/B'd an *old* vinyl Howling Wolf LP with the same album on CD, and the CD sounded like crap. Total loss of definition. And balls.

Possible explanations:
1) The master tape used for the CD deteriorated faster than my vinyl LP.
2) The master tape got lost, and the CD was mastered from an LP that was more worn out than my LP.
3) The chi life force so essential to Chicago blues thrives in an analog medium, but is weakened when quantized by the A/D process.

IMO,
-rb

[big_teee]

Sorry Terry but when people make blind assumptions like the one quoted below I will speak in my defense.

Your Doing OK.
You Stated your opinion, and that is fine.
You don't Owe anyone an Explanation!
This is supposed to be a have fun Forum.
No one is on trial here.
We don't need a Prosecuting Attorney in this forum Category!
Terry

[David Schwab]

Sorry Terry but when people make blind assumptions like the one quoted below I will speak in my defense.

Blind assumptions? What's a "blind assumption"?

So speak already, and this time use some worlds that make sense together.

[David Schwab]

I have A/B'd an *old* vinyl Howling Wolf LP with the same album on CD, and the CD sounded like crap. Total loss of definition. And balls.

Possible explanations:
1) The master tape used for the CD deteriorated faster than my vinyl LP.
2) The master tape got lost, and the CD was mastered from an LP that was more worn out than my LP.
3) The chi life force so essential to Chicago blues thrives in an analog medium, but is weakened when quantized by the A/D process.

I wasn't talking about an album that old. I'm talking about one recorded on modern gear. The oldest album I tested was from the mid 80s.

But yeah, all those reasons are probably true, plus, the CD allowed you to hear how bad the original recording was because of the higher resolution.

Also, you are very mistaken about quantizing and A/D conversion. You want some proof?

Zmix Converter Tests

Here he runs two recordings, drum over heads, and a piano, though 60 A/D-D/A conversions, and using a lot of extra cable and cheap converters. You won't hear any difference worth talking about.

Modern, and even not so modern converters give you an exact copy. The only way you would have quantizing noise is if you were sampling at like 8 bits or something. Like those singing greeting cards. Most modern recordings are 32-bt and sampled at very high rates. But even if you sample at 44.1 kHz/16-bit, which is the Red Book standard for audio CDs, you will have no quantizing or resampling when you encode for the CD.

In practice the range of values and sampling rate must be high enough to ensure accurate reproduction of the original analogue waveform. The upper limit for the human ear is about 20kHz therefore the audio must be sampled at 40,000 times per second or higher (since two samples are required for both halves of a sine wave). To reduce distortion and quantisation noise each sample must be represented by at least a 16-bit number giving 65,536 values or levels (0 to 65,535) per sample.

http://www.mediatechnics.com/cdaudio.htm

[David Schwab]

Your Doing OK.
You Stated your opinion, and that is fine.
You don't Owe anyone an Explanation!
This is supposed to be a have fun Forum.
No one is on trial here.
We don't need a Prosecuting Attorney in this forum Category!
Terry

Are you making the rules for the forum now Terry?

Maybe we should rename this thread "fairy tales about pickups"?

[big_teee]

As OP and Moderator, I close this thread.
If you want to argue and be Negative Please do it in another area.
As Threads go to arguing and are Negative, I will close them.
Terry