Charlie Christian Econo Clone

[big_teee]

Anyone got any ideas how to make a PoorBoy CS Pickup.
No Cobalt magnet, just use Alnico Magnets.
So how could we make a cheap copy of this style of Pickup?
Blade in the middle I guess 2 magnets on the bottom like a P90?
There has been a lot of chatter about these pickups lately.
I got asked today if I could make one?
The Answer so Far is Not Yet!
Let's discuss it for a while before anyone tries to tackle it!
T

[big_teee]

Bump!
I guess there is less interest than I thought!
I may try to make a smaller pickguard mountable model.
Does anyone know what the bobbin height is on the Original CC?
Anyone know what characteristics are for the original colbalt magnet?
Or what strength magnet anyone else is using in their model?
T

[copperheadroads]

Hard to find dimensions of the bobbin or any thing

[big_teee]

I found this on wiki.
It looks like there were 3 different models throuhg the years.
I like the idea of combining some of the features.

The Charlie Christian pickup consists of a coil of copper wire wound around a black plastic bobbin. The coil has a rectangular hole in its center, and the coil and bobbin fit around a chrome-plated steel blade polepiece. Attached at right angles to the bottom of the polepiece are a pair of five-inch-long (13 cm) steel bar magnets, which remain out of sight inside the instrument. These magnets are secured to the top of the ES-150 by the three bolts visible on the guitar's top. The entire assembly is about six inches (15 cm) long, and weighs nearly two pounds (900 g).

There were three different varieties of Charlie Christian pickup produced by Gibson, and all three are distinguished by the polepiece:

The first of these was produced from 1936 until mid-1938 and had a plain blade polepiece. The coil was wound to about 2.4 kΩ resistance using AWG 38 enameled wire.
The second type was introduced on ES-150s built from mid-1938 onward, and featured a polepiece that had a notch cut out below the second (B) string. This modification was made to lower the volume of the B string, which sounded significantly louder than the other strings. At this time the coil was wound with a finer wire (AWG 42) resulting in more turns and an approximately 5.2 kΩ resistance, which gave the pickup a higher output.
The third pickup was available on the Gibson ES-250, which was available beginning in 1939. The blade on this pickup had five notches, each located between the strings. This pickup also had a more compact internal design. It featured a cobalt steel slug that was small enough to sit directly under the pickup.

[rjb]

So how could we make a cheap copy of this style of Pickup?
Blade in the middle I guess 2 magnets on the bottom like a P90?

Why not 1 magnet on the bottom- more like the geometry of a CC?
T, have you perused this thread? http://music-electronics-forum.com/t26028/

Consensus seems to be just build a blade pickup- but the devil is in the details.

[big_teee]

Thanks rjb:
The more I look into the CC?
The pickup doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as the complications of routing and mounting it.
So As I persue this I'm already trying to reconsider what to build.
Was mainly wanting to throw it out for discussion.
I think for me, It will be a blade pickup on some kind of conventional mounting.
Like a blade on a mini base plate, or maybe a center blade on a humbucker.
Once you veer from the main CC, it all seems to lose the appeal?
What do you guys think?
Combine the CC and the Stacked Strat Pickup, and you end up with a long blade, 2 bobbins, and magnets on the bottom.
BTW, I'm Still not Crazy about pickups that don't hum Cancel!
T

[John_H]

Thanks rjb:
The more I look into the CC?
The pickup doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as the complications of routing and mounting it.
So As I persue this I'm already trying to reconsider what to build.
Was mainly wanting to throw it out for discussion.

I've always thought that Charlies were cool looking, and very interesting from a historical standpoint. They're not anything I'd want to reverse engineer, or make personally. It seems like an awful lot of trouble, and work to imitate what is at the best mediocre tone.

I think for me, It will be a blade pickup on some kind of conventional mounting.
Like a blade on a mini base plate, or maybe a center blade on a humbucker.
Once you veer from the main CC, it all seems to lose the appeal?
What do you guys think?

It wouldn't be that tough to make something that resembles one, but the tone would be a crapshoot, and might take extensive R/D for something that probably wouldn't sell too well.

BTW, I Still hate pickups that don't humcancel!
T

You Hater!

A discussion that I'd really like to see would be about Ric Pickups!!


CC vs. Humbucker

[big_teee]

Hate is a little strong and I retract that.
I get a little carried away sometimes with the adjectives!
I really don't hate any pickup that has good tone, but still prefer if you can get good tone from a Hum Canceling model.
Feel free to start a thread on the Rick Pickups.
I think you may be talking about rick bass pickups.
If so you would get a lot better mileage from your thread on the regular forum.
Not that many diehard bass pickup builders here on the BC.
I'm all for starting any pickup project we can build here on the the BC, that will let everyone learn, get tips, and how-tos from it?
Not too far down the pike, I'm going to order a bunch of bass pickup parts and try my hand at making something for my Ibanez SR4 Left hand bass.
Going to convert it to Passive.
So if you guys think of another project that we as a BC group can do feel free to jump in and let us know.
T

[SonnyW]

I am a little surprised that Jason hasn't jumped in here on this one. He has a good CC clone going. Part of the problem is getting the parts to be authentic looking, and part of the problem is getting the rest of the winding to be authentic. The original magnets were way different and that is just not practical these days. But Jason was one of the first to do a decent CC clone with modern magnets. I don't think this is an easy one at all to duplicate.

[big_teee]

I am a little surprised that Jason hasn't jumped in here on this one. He has a good CC clone going. Part of the problem is getting the parts to be authentic looking, and part of the problem is getting the rest of the winding to be authentic. The original magnets were way different and that is just not practical these days. But Jason was one of the first to do a decent CC clone with modern magnets. I don't think this is an easy one at all to duplicate.

Wasn't trying to take anyone elses pickup. Just trying to come up with something we could all make.
When I realized the biggest obstacle is the guitar itself.
Unless maybe a P90 guitar, the pickup doesn't fit any other guitar without routing?
So I think for the time being I will persue various Humbucking models I make, and don't make, Yet.

[SonnyW]

I didn't mean my post that way at all. I realize it started from a customer request, like any of us might get, at one time or another.

[jason lollar]

I didnt see this but anyway if your time has any value cutting out all your parts from scratch isnt really economical. original coil height is between .45 and .5 inches. its 38 gauge so its a large coil. there are guys making them with a what amounts to a P-90 coil but it doesnt sound like the charlie. Those are more like the jimmy reed pickup which is good but a different thing.
So its a big coil but it could fit into a P-90 soapbar route but its going to be about 1 inch tall overall.
One thing i have seen the other guys making these i think is a big mistake is not plating thier blades, they will eventually corrode and make a mess