Blade pickup for a cello????

[Bruce Johnson]

Peter;

If you haven't seen this before, here's a sequence of web pages showing the whole process of how I build the pickups on my Series IV Scroll Basses. Many parts of my process are different from the classic Fender/Gibson methods that most of the guys on this forum use. I like to explore and try new things. I only build pickups for my own model basses; I'm not interested in the aftermarket/retrofit pickup sales market.

Building Scroll Basses- Pickups 1

[Peter Ormonde]

Obviously a man of great sense Bruce .

While I can see why for a commercial operation it is necessary to have a stock standard replacement upgrade on the "industry standard" it makes no sense whatsoever for those of us who are interested in building better quality and more unusual instruments. To be honest I've always found the industry standards to be rather cheap and nasty gadgets myself - Fender basses in particular - and I have no interest at all in following down that path or trying to make basically flawed designs slighty less awful.

Slavish devotion to "industry standards" also tends to get a repetive monotony in the end product as well - the music. Look what Brian May's little home-made effort did for Queen's unique melody lines.

It's rather sad actually that the clever folks who wind coils are invariably concerned with getting a retro vintage sound or - at the radical end, making something that sounds better than the original - but all imprisoned in a straightjacket of endless copying.

There's a few that aren't - like Lightwave and Ned Steinberger - who are going from strength to strength but by and large the whole business of guitar design is sadly conservative and backward looking. One of the main reasons I started building my own in fact.

But I must admit I didn't think I would have to build the entire thing from the ground up. Now I build my own tuners, bridges, necks, fingerboards, bodies and now the bloody pick-ups. Thankfully I am still using normal off-the-shelf strings. So far.

[big_teee]

Looks to me like you may want to get some from Bruce!
Unless you just like exercises in Futility, like the Rest of us.
T

[Peter Ormonde]

Looks to me like you may want to get some from Bruce!
Unless you just like exercises in Futility, like the Rest of us.
T

I don't know how he can bear to part with them actually! I'd give him a leg or two for a set. But you're right Mr Tee ... a decent chunk of this is the quixotic struggle against common sense... so I'm now wedded to the idea of building my own, come hell or high water!


Everyone should have a look at those pictures Bruce has posted. What spectacular little contraptions - I love the faraday cage arrangement - just beautiful... pure sense, great physics and cute to boot! Seems a pity to cover them up really. What a clever fella ... and beautiful workmanship. Love the coil winder too - very Heath Robinson ... I think you yanks call the same thing a Rube Goldberg.... pulleys everywhere! But those gadgets are too pretty to hide Bruce ... clear perspex covers required! Strut your stuff.

I stand in awe.

I'm more a wood butcher myself ... hot "v profile" Australian hardwood necks, hardwood bodies all hand carved ... lots of burl and the like... small bodies but heavy and dense ... interesting live tone ... tend to play back at you like they are alive.... even with the accursed piezos. I was initially driven by my love of wood to do something simultaeously useful and sculptural with it.

But I am totally out of my paddock when serious electronics gets mentioned ... I don't believe anything I can't see... all magic and mirrors I reckon. So I am greatly appreciative of your comments and suggestions folks. Off to the shed to torture a lovely slab of coolabah!

Peter

[Peter Naglitsch]

Getting into this discussion a bit late and I have only had a very quick reading so if Im missing anything I apologize.

Peter; Are the cello going to be played with a bow or only plucked? The reason for the question is that the string movement is very different between a bowed and a plucked string. A plucked string will vibrate in more or less "all directions" or a rotating pattern if looking from the head down towards the bridge, A bowed string will mainly vibrate in the direction of the bowing movement. Maybe some 70-80% is in the bowing direction. So what has that got to do with anything? Well, a string generates a current in the magnetic pickup because it changes the magnetic field in the coil, thus inducing a current (Im sure Mike will chime in any minute now with a scientific correct explanation). However when the string moves in a direction that is mainly parallel with the windings in the coil you have a far from ideal setup to produce a current in the coil. I have built one electric cello and one electric violin. Apart from that I have, against better knowing, made three different magnetic pickups for a guy playing electric violin (I have told him every time that his wild ideas probably wont work, but in the end its job for me that I can charge him for...). None of the magnetic pickups have been successful. And I have tried various combinations of single string coil, extended length coils (actually something similar to what Bruce makes on his scroll bases, thanks for the inspiration Bruce), mini one string HBs, coils and magnets that are parallel with the strings etc. None of the versions have been very successful at all. Both of the instruments I have built have after these extensive experimenting with magnetic pickups ended up using bridge integrated pickups from Rich Barbera of BTS. Great acoustic sound, high impedance output (meaning you can plug it directly into a guitar amp or similar for fuzz and other effects) and really nice craftsmanship. Do yourself a favor and check him out. and no, I have no connections to Rich or his company. I'm just a really satisfied customer...

If anyone is curious this is the cello and the violin I built.

[bbsailor]

G'day.

I'm wanting to do something odd - not unusual for me.

I'm wanting to build a humbucking blade/rail pickup on a cello. Trouble is these gadgets have a 70mm radius or so over the fingerboard and bridge. That's 2 3/4" in old money.

What I'd like some advice - hunches will do - on is how evenly the charge from the magnet carries over the blade - that is, does the field "drop off" over distance or will it be evenly spread despite the middle being a good half inch or more further away than it is at the ends?

I'm thinking of using a decent lump of neodymium under each blade. Not sure about that either. I'm trying for warm soft tones rather than twang - I get enough twang from the bridge piezos.

The idea is then to hook them together through a blender/eq circuit - piezos for bowing, magnetics for plucking.

All ideas suggestions hunches and scornful dismissals welcome. Well, less so the last one.

Peter,

See this thread on this forum, post #5 http://music-electronics-forum.com/t5578/. The member built a cello pickup using the method discussed in this thread topic.

Joseph Rogowski

[big_teee]

Never realized there was so much competition for Cello pickup designs!

[David Schwab]

I'm with Bruce on the separate coils per string idea. With four coils, you can have a humbucker. If you want a thicker tone, use two coils per string.