Custom wind questions

[squirreljuice]

Hello all, new to the site, was hoping someone here could point me in the right direction.

I have a customer who wants a tele neck that I’m making for him to have the meaty P90 tone, has requested AlNiCo V pole pieces, and wants to keep the cover for appearance purposes.

Sorry if someone has already answered a question like this, I did some searching here and on Google but couldn’t really find what I’m looking for. Maybe I’m not using the right search terms, I’m not sure.

My main question is if you guys have any advice for achieving this tone? I’m not requesting anyone’s “recipe” per se. I know I’m probably going to need 43 gauge wire to get the DC resistance close to that of a P90 and the cover will help mellow the tone, but is there any other guidance you guys may have to offer?

[Helmholtz]

While I doubt that you can exactly replicate the P-90 tone with alnico poles (as opposed to steel poles) I think the most important factor would be to use a similar turns number (around 10,000) to get in the ballpark with inductance. Forget DCR, it's inductance which defines frequency response.

The inductivities of 50s and early 60s P-90s I measured range between 6.5H and 8.6H @100Hz.

[big_teee]

The whole world uses DCR for reference, so it is hard to totally forget it.
I make a Neck Tele pickup with .495 inch between flats, with A5 magnets with 42 SP wire.
I use around 7850 turns with a nickel cover.(close to full coil)
It comes in at around 5.6k DCR.
I use .195 magnets taped, they measure .2" after taping.
It is nice strong, loud, and everyone seems to dig it!
It is a bit strat sounding.
With a wide spaced tele bobbin, with tall rod magnets, it will be hard to get a P90 sound, but with experimentation, maybe you can come up with a nice compromise!
GL,
T

[Helmholtz]

The whole world uses DCR for reference, so it is hard to totally forget it.

DCR is a parasitic property of conductors. All it does is produce losses and damp a PU's resonance. It completely loses its informative value if different wire gauges or different coil dimensions are involved.

[big_teee]

No argument here, but most all pickup makers list the DCR of their pickups.
Players and builders that only have a multimeter, can get an idea what they have.
So I like to always include the DCR, plus that is what the Estimator is built around.
with the knowns, bobbin dimensions/wire ohms per foot/ turns, should = a ballpark DCR.
That allows a low tech builder to still be able to make and measure a pickup.
Without having LCR gear.
GL,
T

[Helmholtz]

The nice thing about the coil estimator is that it allows to estimate the achievable turns number which is way more important than DCR.

[squirreljuice]

Thanks guys.

I’m gonna get the magnets and flat work ordered tonight, and I’ll post back after some experimentation to let you know how it turns out.

[big_teee]

On the estimator you have to run up the dcr to get more turns.
Less DCR gives less turns.
It's all usefull and accepted here.
T

[Helmholtz]

The DCR solely depends on wire length and actual gauge. For a given PU assembly and wire gauge the DCR is a crude makeshift indicator of turns number and thus of inductance (frequency response) and output.
But as DCR depends on wire gauge and geometry, it has no absolute meaning.
OTOH, inductance and turns number are directly related to frequency response and output and do not depend on wire cross section.

So if you wire the same PU for a specific target DCR but use a different wire gauge, turns numbers and inductances will be different and so will be sonic results.
Whereas if you wire to same turns number or inductance, sonic results will at least be very similar despite different DCRs.

[copperheadroads]

I know I’m probably going to need 43 gauge wire to get the DC resistance close to that of a P90 and the cover will help mellow the tone,

Your going to need 43 gauge or smaller if it's a tele neck pickup .

[ken]

A stock Tele neck pickup is already would with 43 gauge wire, so you would need at least 44 gauge to get in the ballpark.

[Lyrebird Steve]

There are a couple of Winders who already make such a pickup (like this guy)

What seems to be common is that they utilize Poles and dual magnets. Perhaps re-purpose a P90 kit like this one ?

Best of luck