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41G wire compared to 42G

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  • eschertron
    replied
    Originally posted by copperheadroads View Post
    I have wound Strat & Tele pickups with 41 gauge wire & it sounds kind of scooped .nice clear bottom end . but the reason behind this is cause i wound very efficient coil to get the most output i could before it was full .. perfect winds & no tricks to alter the tone .
    I'm not a winder but I'm curious. By 'efficient' you mean very little to no scatter?

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  • copperheadroads
    replied
    I have wound Strat & Tele pickups with 41 gauge wire & it sounds kind of scooped .nice clear bottom end . but the reason behind this is cause i wound very efficient coil to get the most output i could before it was full .. perfect winds & no tricks to alter the tone .

    Leave a comment:


  • big_teee
    replied
    I moved a copy of the OP's post to Pickup theory.
    Any Theory related to this thread needs to be discussed there.
    https://music-electronics-forum.com/...ad.php?t=51081
    Thank You,
    Mod/T
    Last edited by big_teee; 05-07-2020, 10:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Helmholtz
    replied
    I've been told that it's not welcome to discuss PU theory/physics here in the B/H section.
    So I recommend to ask related question in the new "PU theory" section of the forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • Slight Return
    replied
    Originally posted by big_teee View Post
    I've experimented with different things on strat pickups.
    Not with measurements, but with what they sound like to me.
    I imagine you are talking about the neck pickup.
    The neck pickup in a strat is so far from the bridge, it gets muddy fast.
    I found that 41 is too large and I couldn't get enough turns on the bobbin for the tone I wanted.
    Rather than go to 41, try 42H, and limit the amount of turns on the neck pickp. Less than 8000 turns.
    Another thing that effects clarity and brightness, is bobbin height, the height between the flats.
    Taller bobbins sound brighter.
    That can require taller magnets.
    Magnet type also effect tone.
    Experimentation is the key to all of it.
    T
    I've been very curious to try heavier build insulation, and see if it reduces capacitance. This could help with clarity. Has that been your experience -- heavier build insulation makes for a pickup with more clarity/high end?

    Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
    Your friend is wrong.

    More turns give more output and less treble. This may give the illusion of increased bass.
    This has been my experience.

    I made a very tall bobbin and wound a neck pickup for a Strat with 38AWG (it might've been 39, I can't remember, but it was one of those two), and did not notice any difference at all. Same turn count that I'd normally use for a Strat neck pickup. I probably have the audio recording somewhere, but I recorded it through my amp with the same specs and everything, only difference being the pickup. It sounded identical to a 42 AWG pickup that I'd made with the same amount of turns.

    Very disappointing, but those were my results.

    I'm still curious about insulation thickness and its potential role in capacitance, but even then, I remain skeptical. I've wound a lot of pickups with a lot of different wire gauges and every single time I come back to turn count being king.

    That's just been my experience. I always encourage people to try for themselves. My own curiosity would not have been sated if I didn't do my own experiments. FWIW, I always use my LCR meter on every pickup I wind and check for Q at 1kHz, inductance at 100Hz, DCR, and capacitance at 100kHz, and keep my notes on all of them, just to compare at later dates. Makes for an interesting experimentation.....and lots of notebooks scattered around the workshop.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian W.
    replied
    Originally posted by big_teee View Post
    Their specs will not be what it is.
    That has been my experience with all the wire I've bought.
    The size and ohms per foot, is what would be good to know.
    Some 42 single may be .0025-.00275.
    That will mean a lot in tone, that is why we go by turns.
    What about the height of your bobbins.
    That also determines how much wire you get on them and how bright they sound.
    Can you measure an empty bobbin?
    Most bobbins measure around .435 or 11mm.
    I like at least that tall for the neck pickup.
    You can make them less tall on the bridge to fatten up the tone.
    Lots of variables with flatwork bobbins.

    T
    Oh welll...so much for factory specs!

    The flat work measures 1/2 " from the inside surfaces.
    Last edited by big_teee; 04-26-2020, 02:06 AM.

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  • big_teee
    replied
    Their specs will not be what it is.
    That has been my experience with all the wire I've bought.
    The size and ohms per foot, is what would be good to know.
    Some 42 may be .0025-.00275.
    That will mean a lot in tone, that is why we go by turns.
    What about the height of your bobbins.
    That also determines how much wire you get on them and how bright they sound.
    Can you measure an empty bobbin?
    Most bobbins measure around .435 or 11mm.
    I like at least that tall for the neck pickup.
    You can make them less tall on the bridge to fatten up the tone.
    Lots of variables with flatwork bobbins.

    T

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian W.
    replied
    Originally posted by big_teee View Post
    Can you mic your 42 HFV, If it is below .00275 then it will be too small for what I like.
    If it is above .00285 then that would be OK.
    Also if you could mic the 41.
    My 41 was at least .0031" diamater or larger, and I could not get near 6k on a strat coil.
    Wire size varies so much so we really need to know what you are dealing with?
    To talk size and tone.
    I like the 42 SP and limit the turns on the neck, put more on the middle, and a full coil on the bridge pickup.
    So I really don't know what sound you are going for?
    T
    Wellll...let's seeeeee.............according to Remington's specs the 42G HF is .0029" thick and the 41G is .0030" thick.
    I would usually have 42G HF with A5 magnets wound to around 5.60 K for the neck . about 6K for the middle, and around 6.50 or 7 K for the bridge.
    I thought that using 41G wire wound to about 4.5 K or 5K would add a little clarity to the neck pickup [also with A5 magnets].

    Leave a comment:


  • big_teee
    replied
    Can you mic your 42 HFV, If it is below .00275 then it will be too small for what I like.
    If it is above .00285 then that would be OK.
    Also if you could mic the 41.
    My 41 was at least .0031" diamater or larger, and I could not get near 6k on a strat coil.
    Wire size varies so much so we really need to know what you are dealing with?
    To talk size and tone.
    I like the 42 SP and limit the turns on the neck, put more on the middle, and a full coil on the bridge pickup.
    So I really don't know what sound you are going for?
    T

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian W.
    replied
    Originally posted by big_teee View Post
    Ditto what Max said.
    I have great luck with the 42 HP and 42 SP.
    Brian, another thing, when reporting on here.
    Are you winding By Turns, or just DCR.
    I usually state both so we have more to go on, but if possible we wind by turns, and state how many turns for what gauge of wire your using.
    Then list your DCR for comparison, if you want to?
    T
    I'm just winding by DCR now. I mentioned my R readings a couple of times but didn't really specify anything beyond that. For the sake of experimentation I've been winding the Formvar until the coil is full and then trimming it back to desired DCR. I don't have a counter. I've been playing for a long time on stage and studios so I'm pretty aware of the sounds I want. As far as Strats go [I use other guitars as well] I like the Formvar and plain enamel wire. Sometimes I've mixed the two [enamel for the neck pickup and Formvar for the bridge...] but lately would like to use all the same wire for all 3 pickups. So that's what brought me to the 41G wire! I thought that slightly lower DCR combined with fatter wire might be good.

    I have 42G Heavy Formvar and have been using that exclusively until I got some 41G from Remington this week.

    Leave a comment:


  • big_teee
    replied
    Ditto what Max said.
    I have great luck with the 42 HP and 42 SP.
    Brian, another thing, when reporting on here.
    Are you winding By Turns, or just DCR.
    I usually state both so we have more to go on, but if possible we wind by turns, and state how many turns for what gauge of wire your using.
    Then list your DCR for comparison, if you want to?
    T

    Leave a comment:


  • max oersted
    replied
    Originally posted by Brian W. View Post
    Would Remington Industries carry that wire?? I failed to mention that up to now I have been using 42G heavy formvar for my Strat pickups.
    MWS and BAE do for sure but I can't speak to Remington. 42HF is the stuff for vintage Strats but at this stage of your winding prowess, save this expensive wire and get some 42 HPN. It's more cost-effective in your experimentation phase and if done right will yield a very similar tone. My .02, FWIW, IMHO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian W.
    replied
    Originally posted by big_teee View Post
    I tried it, I didn't like it.
    YMMV,
    T
    How did it compare sound-wise to a pickup wound with 42G Formvar [ A 5 magnets] ?

    Leave a comment:


  • big_teee
    replied
    Originally posted by Brian W. View Post
    HHmmm......maybe a good candidate for a Strat neck pickup!
    I tried it, I didn't like it.
    YMMV,
    T

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian W.
    replied
    Originally posted by big_teee View Post
    My experienc with 41, it was sterile bright sounding, used on strat pickups.
    But, hey, try it and let us know what you think!
    I had good luck using 41 on bass pickups.
    Bright is usually a good thing with bass picups.
    GL,
    T
    HHmmm......maybe a good candidate for a Strat neck pickup!

    Leave a comment:

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