What to start off with

[littlewyan]

I'm new to pickup winding as you may have seen in my first post and have been trying to wind bridge pickups with 5500-5800 winds, Alnico 2 smooth and roughcast magnets but have had limited success. My favourite pickup is the Super 57 (Alnico 2, 5750 winds on each bobbin), but I can't get close to it. My pickups always come out a bit grainy sounding, like they're lacking power and sizzle. I think it's partly the magnets I'm using as I have heard the 57 Classic, 57 Classic+ and Super 57 use slightly thicker more powerful alnico 2 magnets, but anyway. I want to take a step back and start off with something easy. Would you guys recommend starting off with a T Top maybe? 5250 winds on each bobbin, 65tpl, Short Alnico2 or 5 magnet?

The way I'm going at the moment I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere. I've been trying different TPLs which I sort of have the hang of, I haven't messed with any particular winding patterns though, just keeping it even across the board. And just to be clear, I'm not here trying to swipe ideas so I can sell my pickups, I just want to have fun making different sounds and maybe make some for a few friends. It's just a bit disheartening when everything you make sounds bad!

[mozz]

You can swap magnets with the pickups you already made. Try A5 if it's got A2. Try winding a extra bobbin with higher tension, swap that out and see what difference it makes. If you're trying to duplicate a Gibson pickup, they are machine wound, so go nice and even no scatter.

[big_teee]

Let's start at the basics.
We need more info, and pictures would help.
Are you playing the pickups with a cover on them?
I suggest leaving the covers off until you get everything worked out.
Are you potting your pickups?
Are you using the old method of humbucker building?
Putting the start lead through the hole in the bottom of the bobbin with a 28 gauge hookup wire?
Finish lead using a 28 gauge finish wire on top?
The newer way some use is both wires hooked up, on top of the bobbin.
I personally like the old way.
Are you using 2 wire, or 4 wire hookup cable?
Have you tried different alloy screws and slugs.
Are you using a nickel silver baseplate?
Maget wire diamater has an effect, and you can mic the wire to know the size.
What about tension?
Are both bobbins wound the same amount of turns, or are you using an offset?
All of these things effect tone.
T
Other bucker builders please jump in!

[Helmholtz]

In my experience different pole screws can make more difference than magnets.
Maybe try the original Gibson screws in your PU for a test.

[littlewyan]

- No covers
- No potting
- I'm using the new method, start wire on the outside
- 2 wire hookup cable
- Have not tried different alloy screws and slugs, I don't have any choice with UK based suppliers unfortunately, but I am using 1018 steel.
- Using Nickel Silver baseplate
- I checked the wire using calipers but they're not precise enough. All I can tell you is it's between 0.06 and 0.07mm, probably closer to 0.07mm.
- I've tried both loose and tight tension. Tight tension got me a bit closer to what I wanted.
- Both bobbins are wound the same. I have tried offsetting with a hotter screw coil a few times but never liked it. But that's probably a bad generalisation as I haven't got a symmetrical wind to sound good yet!
- I've tried TPLs from 50 to 95.

The last coil I wound was 5600 turns on each bobbin, tight tension, 50TPL with A2 Smooth. Same as the others it just lacked high end and that snarl you get when hitting an open G chord. I was going to try an A4 roughcast in it and then unwinding it to 5500 turns on each bobbin. Failing that I was thinking of just trying a T Top, to see if I can get a lower wind pickup right. I also need to get myself a gauss meter so I actually know what I'm dealing with, as I wonder if my A2s aren't fully charged.

[littlewyan]

Here are some photos of one of the last bobbins I wound. I did take photos of the other one but they weren't very clear! You can see that even with the tight tension I only just got 5600 turns on there because of the 50TPL.
Thanks for your help with this by the way, really appreciate it.

[Helmholtz]

As PU inductance is probably the most influential PU parameter, I'd recommend to get an LCR meter.

[littlewyan]

Got one The 5600 turn pickup I mentioned measured 5.2H at 1Khz.

[Helmholtz]

Have you actually compared your PUs with the Super 57 in the same guitar with same brand new strings?

[littlewyan]

Not the same guitar. Both are Les Pauls though. My Gibson has the pcb board with quick connect pickups, so it’s not easy to swap them out. I don’t think it’s the guitars though as the differences are night and day between the pickups. The Super 57 has so much more output.

[littlewyan]

Actually something I forgot to mention. I measured the pickup inductance with both a2 and a5 magnets and found the a5 magnet gave a lower inductance reading. Is that normal?

[Helmholtz]

Actually something I forgot to mention. I measured the pickup inductance with both a2 and a5 magnets and found the a5 magnet gave a lower inductance reading. Is that normal?

Yes that's normal.
A5 has lower permeability (µ) and a stronger magnet also lowers the µ of slugs and screws, so inductance will be lower by a few %.

[mozz]

Are the vol pots the same value in both guitars? I have a Gibson with 300k pots, and they measure 240k out of circuit. I swapped them out for 500k. You should be able to measure the inductance of the super 57s, unplug them, you might have to jumper the bobbins if you have 4 wire.

[big_teee]

If you're willing to experiment?
Use one guitar, pots and caps vary the tone a lot.
For testing purposes, forget the switch and neck pots, & pickup.
Similar to below.
Try different value pots and caps.
On a bridge pickup, I always like more turns on the slug coil.
It is further from the bridge.
Wind two or three different pickups.
Keep changing the way they are wound, until you find what you like in that guitar.
experimenting is a lot of work but it will pay off in the long run.
Once you get it all like you like, then add the switch and neck pickup.
GL,
T

[littlewyan]

The pots in both guitars are 500K. I also measured them and confirmed they're pretty close.

Plan of action. I have ordered some neo magnets and parts to build a Gauss meter so I can see how charged my magnets are and recharge if needed. Then I'll carry on winding, I have a few ideas I want to play with. I'm also going to try feeding the wire a bit closer to the bobbin, I've been holding the wire about 4/5" away on my last few winds to help with tension but I think it's allowing the wire to move about too much. My best pickups so far were wound with my hand about 1" away from the bobbin but I was tensioning the wire too much. Need to find a middle ground!