Bachi Winder Gears on eBay

[CheopisIV]

A PSA on some gears for a Bachi winding machine. I'd bet they'll fit a Coweco and Geo Stevens (and maybe others?) but since I'm good on gears, I won't be buying them. I need CAMS! If anyone has any inside info, I'm all ears.

[Jim Darr]

Be careful...not all gears for these machines are interchangeable.The Cowecos and Geo Stevens usually use a smaller tooth profile than the ones for the Bachi machines in question. Also, the Bachis that I have require a indexing cutout on the bore hole to prevent the gear from slipping on the shaft. Note that I have seen some Cowecos also with the larger tooth style. Because of this I have a full set of the smaller tooth style and selected gears for the TPLs I need for the larger tooth variety.

The typical setup for Cowecos and Geo Stevens use a Driver gear and Driven gear with an Idler gear in-between. The combination of tooth count for each gear and the Idler ratio determines the TPL. The Bachi 115s use a Driver 1, Driver 2 (Upper) and Driven (Lower) along with a non-changeable Cam shaft gear to get desired TPL. Most Operating Manuals list Gear Ratio Tables.

I'll try to post a picture of the two styles in the next few days...the difference will be very obvious to see.

[CheopisIV]

Gotcha, and good to know! I was thinking my gears were keyed but theyre just round; its my cams that have the keyway on them. Now that you mention it, the teeth do look a little largish.

[Jim Darr]

Sorry it took a few days to take a picture of the two gear styles for comparison.

The two bottom gears are both 65 teeth per gear...as you can see the Bachi (indexing notched keyhole is on the left) and overall diameter is much larger than the finer toothed Geo Stevens (on the right).

The top two are 24 teeth (left) and 26 teeth (right). You'll also notice that the Bachi gears are thicker too.

Hope this helps

[David King]

Gears are more or less generic. If you can calculate the pitch you can replace the gear or shop for matching gears...
R/C Calculations

[Jim Darr]

Gears are more or less generic. If you can calculate the pitch you can replace the gear or shop for matching gears...
R/C Calculations

David,

Agreed that the formulas used for these two type gears (Bachi and Geo Stevens) are based on the same principles. My point was that the two were physically different and therefore could not be used interchangeably between the different winder manufactures as Cheopis IV suggested in the original post.

I am not a Mechanical Engineer, but I believe the design formulas are more complicated than just Pitch, Tooth Count and Gear diameter alone. I found this page on Gear Design Equations to be helpful:

Gear Design Equations and Formula | Circular Pitches and Equivalent Diametral Pitches Table | Engineers Edge

Maybe somebody else can chime in??

[CheopisIV]

The gears won't intermix, but on the Geo with the drive/idler/driven gear combo any gears (as a set) would work as long as they're mountable. The idler has all the adjustability needed to get it into the right place to make any gears work as long as all three are the same config.

Your picture shows the size difference between the two sets and the only thing keeping the Bachi gears from working on the Geo is the .375" bore of the Bachi vs the .250" bore of the Geo... oh, and there'd most likely be some interference with those huge diameters

Thanks for the comparison pic, it's hard to gauge the size without a frame of reference!!

[David King]

I was just thinking that those with gears on hand could take some simple measurements and post those results for others to use as reference and comparison. There are several gear tooth pressure angles that we might be dealing with and clearly different ways of measuring them (module vs diametral pitches).
Measuring the tooth angle isn't too hard if you have some modeling clay and a protractor handy. Here's a more detailed set of instructions if one wants to get clinical about it but true gear measurement is probably going to require some very specialized equipment.

Judging that most of this equipment is from the early to mid twentieth century and that the gearing is strictly for timing purposes and not power transmission I think it's safe to assume that all the gears are going to be a PA of 14.5º.

[CheopisIV]

I'd venture to say the Geo gears might even be 20 degree pitch angle. They appear to have sharper teeth and more contact time, both and neither of which are clear indicators though

[Johnnie5]

I I was just setting up the pitch on my Geo Stevens earlier tonite I found both styles of gears in the stash I got when I picked up the winder.

[Jim Darr]

Johnnie5,

Looks like a great machine. Nice find!!

I am personally not directly experienced with the 314-AM model. But in looking at the brochure it says it comes with "One winding setup furnished with 48 pitch, 3/16 face, 3/8 bore, gears completely enclosed for operators safety". Glad you got so many gears.

Your pic shows at least 2 winding heads, if I am not mistaken. The brochure pictures a 3-head setup. The literature also states the cam is completely adjustable...I am curious as to how this is accomplished...can you post some pics of the cam device? I would assume your machine does not use a cam & yoke system, but I may be wrong. The Bachi 115/116 uses an adjustable sliding/cam for this and some Cowecos use a tapered cam for the same result.

My Geo is a circa early 50's model so its design is completely different from the 314-AM. See my Geo below:



The copyright date on the 314-AM brochure says 1970.

Anyway good luck with this very cool winder.

[Johnnie5]

Hey Jim, cool winder! I have 2 separate winders, but they can placed in a bank of winders operating off of separate motors but one counter. Here is the gear set that directs turns per layer You see the knob labeled increase? That adjusts the throw of the traverse arm. I adjust that with this setup

[Jim Darr]

Very nice indeed.

Picture #1 seems to show a standard "Driver Gear", "Driven Gear". and an "Idler Gear (maybe a 2:1 ratio as shown??)" for TPL which is typical for many of these old mechanical winders. My question is how does the Cam system work? I see the knob shown changes the traverse throw, but how?

My current Avatar is a pic of my Geo's cam-yoke-gear setup. (For some reason I can't insert that picture in this post...any ideas on how to fix this problem???)

[Johnnie5]

There is no cam that I can see, but there is a large circle shaped gear with teeth only on one side. I will post a picture of the guts in exploded view later, it wouldn't work for me yesterday. It looks different than the typical cam driven gears. The gears on the top are indeed at a 2-1 ration with a driver and driven gear setup. I have charts on the gears and the tpl ratios if anyone needs them.