Fishing Reel Auto-Traverse

[Magnut]

At one time I considered this type of traverse for an auto winder. I don't know if anyone else has noticed or considered it but there is a very fine traverse available on a CD player. I believe you can drive the motor with a simple 5v signal. Either through a set of adjustable limit switches or photo eye(s), or through programming, it would / should be fairly simple to set one of these up to function nicely. I think the resolution should be just perfect for winding.
Just a thought*

Just did a quick search. If you search "cd drive stepper motor pinout" in the image tab (Google) you will see what I am referring to.

Edit* This type of setup is called a "lead screw". Helpful to know. I had almost forgotten myself...

[WolfeMacleod]

I remember having part of an old fishing reel years ago, and looking at it for a long time. It was just the guide and the spiral-shafted worm-drive thing that it rode on.

[Jason Rodgers]

Oh man, I got my Rube Goldberg on with a fishing reel and a few pulleys! I have yet to transfer the reciprocating action of the reel to an adjustable arm to drive the wire guide, but this thing is gonna be a bit ridiculous.

[John_H]

Here's some video of when I was experimenting with the functions of my winder. I was hoping to use the motor from the R to R, but there wasn't enough torque. This did help very much with my final design though by working out the drive and the ratios for the spinning reel.

[Jason Rodgers]

Ok, here's what I have, so far. From my main-shaft pulley (2-3/8" dia), I took a belt down to a larger pulley (6" dia, MDF) to slow the RPMs...

... connected to the inside of that large pulley is a smaller pulley (3/4" dia, fiber board) that slows things down even further. The third belt comes off the small pulley to another large pulley (again, 6" dia, MDF) that slows down the RPMs yet again turns the fishing reel.

I figured out that the fishing reel traverser piston makes one excursion every 4.5 turns of the spool screw (which the pulley is now attached to). With the help of some online pulley calculators, and other simple maths (and a little trial and error), I figured out the appropriate reductions to make the fishing reel put down about 90 TPL.

The belts are made with leather boot laces, held together with staples. When I started thinking about the pulley solution, I first went to a sewing machine repair shop nearby (because all my other parts are from a sewing machine), but their belt selections (lengths) are very limited. Next, I searched McMaster-Carr. They have all sorts of belts that I could have purchased, and also leather cut-to-length belts with connector links that look an awful lot like a staple. Heck, I already had a pack of leather boot laces in the junk drawer, so I figured I wouldn't be out anything if it didn't work. The speeds and torque are low enough that it works fine. I did have to make one belt guide, because the lateral pull from the fishing reel pulley deflected the bolt shaft of the first pulley and the belt kept falling off. I can open up the winder to full speed, though, and everything works.

Next step, create the arms to transfer the reciprocating motion of the reel traverser piston to the wire guide. I'm going to use a scissors set-up, but that will have to wait until next weekend.

By the way, I find this work very fun and rewarding, but also totally hilarious! I turn this thing on, sit back, and chuckle to myself! I sent a short video to my little brother (a professional hot-rod and chopper builder) and he said, "Is this your pickup winder, or an elaborate machine that will make you breakfast?" Ha!

[Jason Rodgers]

Hiya, folks! Ok, I've finished the linkages necessary to get the

Here's a shot of the whole shebang:

And here are two other angles with some labels:


The pivoting arm links the fishing reel to a thin brass rod that moves the wire guide (made from a nylon bushing). There is an adjustable pivot point (black knob) that changes the width of throw, from 1/4" to 1/2". The bracket with the two rods extending in front of the bobbin platen is actually the result of two other iterations of wire guide attempts, and this evolution happened to work perfectly.

I have some bobbins on order from Mojotone, so I hope to have a chance to set up and wind a coil soon to test it out.

[Jason Rodgers]

A little box from Mojo arrived in the mail today, with a handful of 6-, 7-, and 8-string humbucker bobbins. After the crew went to bed, I headed out to the shop to give the new fishing reel wire traverser its first test.

And here is the first coil.

It's obviously not full: my lead wasn't secured and it popped up in the path of the wire, causing a bit of a mess. Not the first run I'd hoped for, as I actually hoped to use the coil eventually, but it wasn't the fault of the wire guide. (Actually, the problem happened as I was taking the picture! I put the pedal to the metal, grabbed my phone, snapped a picture, then stopped to check progress. Ack! Overconfidence!) I got maybe 3000 turns on there (2.5K, D'OH!), though, and it demonstrates that it works.

I'll definitely need to fine-tune the traverse throw, as the top (right) of the bobbin had a bit of a bulge. In the time that I was able to observe the winding, I noticed a couple other general improvements that I need to make to my winder, too. The bobbin platen runs pretty true... but it needs to be better. There's enough wobble that the wire rides the flat on one end, and is a little shy of the flat on the other. My local plastics store sells plexi discs that are probably cut on a water jet, and are very flat and round. Also, I might try just feeding the wire over the nylon guide, instead of under the nylon guide and over the bar (with the collar stops): I notice that the bar is not smooth enough, and the wire tends to pause every now and again, instead of flowing smoothly from left to right. This has to do with the little inconsistencies of the wire insulation, and I noticed it when I was feeding the wire by hand, too.

So, I'm a long ways from production (HA!), but with a little work, this will be a big step forward in my ability to wind coils with a greater degree of consistency and predictability. And that means I might eventually be able to A-B different sets of pickups and actually understand what the hell I'm doing!

[Joe Gwinn]

I'll definitely need to fine-tune the traverse throw, as the top (right) of the bobbin had a bit of a bulge. In the time that I was able to observe the winding, I noticed a couple other general improvements that I need to make to my winder, too. The bobbin platen runs pretty true... but it needs to be better. There's enough wobble that the wire rides the flat on one end, and is a little shy of the flat on the other. My local plastics store sells plexi discs that are probably cut on a water jet, and are very flat and round.

To the eye only. You will need to have the platens machined on a lathe. I'd use aluminum for this, not plexiglass.

[Lollar Jason]

Plexi can definatly work- i have 12 or 15 winders with plex face plates- its mostly about making sure the flange you are screwing it too is centered and being careful about torqueing the screws down evenly. you can see from the coil shape you wound that the face plate is not quite true even accounting for winging over the pig tail. doesnt take much to get that parallelogram coil. you are really close though!

[Jason Rodgers]

you can see from the coil shape you wound that the face plate is not quite true even accounting for winging over the pig tail. doesnt take much to get that parallelogram coil. you are really close though!

Ha! You nailed it, that's exactly what's going on!

[Joe Gwinn]

Plexi can definatly work- i have 12 or 15 winders with plex face plates- its mostly about making sure the flange you are screwing it too is centered and being careful about torqueing the screws down evenly. you can see from the coil shape you wound that the face plate is not quite true even accounting for winging over the pig tail. doesnt take much to get that parallelogram coil. you are really close though!

Yes, plexi can work, but aluminum needs less care.

[Stratz]

Also, I might try just feeding the wire over the nylon guide, instead of under the nylon guide and over the bar (with the collar stops): I notice that the bar is not smooth enough, and the wire tends to pause every now and again, instead of flowing smoothly from left to right.

Thats the very first thing that came to mind when I looked at the setup.
I dont see the need for the guide bar. I'm guessing the wire is dragging across it a bit which will distort the winding.

Perhaps you can make a simple tensioner to go in place of the nylon wheel. A piece of all thread rod, a few nuts, two flat washers with felt glued to them and you're home.

How do you control the TPL?

*EDIT* Sorry, I see you cant use the style tensioner that I recommended in that spot because of the way the traverse wheel is mounted.
I also see a tensioner just as I described down below the nylon wheel

[Jason Rodgers]

How do you control the TPL?

That's where the all the figuring with the pulleys came in. It's "geared" to give about 90 TPL. Different sized pulleys on the fishing reel (smaller ones) could give a lower TPL. Actually, the first pulley I made was half too small, so I could swap it out for about 45 TPL, if I wanted. It isn't too hard to make a pulley, and they don't need to be perfect at these low speeds, so I could make a small collection of typical TPLs. Using a separate motor to turn the fishing reel would give me variable TPL, of course, but like I said, I built this thing out of parts on hand or that I could make myself.

EDIT: I stopped by my local TAP Plastics store on the way home from work and picked up a new plexi disc. I'll try to get it mounted this weekend.

[Jason Rodgers]

Got that new disc attached, and spent a good bit of time mucking around to true it up. By shimming it with a little square of paper, and alternately tightening screws, I brought the runout down as best I could. The closest I could get it is about .0015" off of totally flat (wobble in and out, so .003" total), which I think is pretty damn good for my purposes. The original platen was flapping around by comparison, at about .004" end to end, or .008" total. Of course, this is a 1/4" plexi disc attached with tiny 8-40 screws to a repurposed sewing machine worm gear. The next time I bump it or sneeze in the general vicinity I'll probably lose that flatness, but that's what you get with this sort of level DIY.

[kayakerca]

Got that new disc attached, and spent a good bit of time mucking around to true it up. By shimming it with a little square of paper, and alternately tightening screws, I brought the runout down as best I could. The closest I could get it is about .0015" off of totally flat (wobble in and out, so .003" total), which I think is pretty damn good for my purposes. The original platen was flapping around by comparison, at about .004" end to end, or .008" total. Of course, this is a 1/4" plexi disc attached with tiny 8-40 screws to a repurposed sewing machine worm gear. The next time I bump it or sneeze in the general vicinity I'll probably lose that flatness, but that's what you get with this sort of level DIY.
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You can also get brass shim material from your local hobby shop. They have it down to .001". If I remember mine, I think a .001" shim took the out of true down by a shade less than .003 high to low at the outer edges of the mount plate. The brass holds pretty consistent.