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Silvertone 1484 Twin Twelve

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  • #31
    I sold one a few months back in perfect working order (even the reverb worked with mostly original tubes) for $400. It had some water damage to the cab. They used to be worthless. I can remember throwing 5 or 6 in a dumpster in the 1980s because the they weren’t worth re-tubing and saved the speakers for wedge monitors. A cult kind of started after Jack White hit and was using one. That demand has peaked I believe. They aren’t a good amp to gig with. The tube sockets don’t age well and you get lots of intermittences if you move them around much. Replacing tube sockets is a bear. If you get “weird” problems the first thing you do is retention the tube sockets.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by olddawg View Post
      I sold one a few months back in perfect working order (even the reverb worked with mostly original tubes) for $400. It had some water damage to the cab. They used to be worthless. I can remember throwing 5 or 6 in a dumpster in the 1980s because the they weren’t worth re-tubing...
      Now that I have one, I see a bunch around for sale. Asking prices are higher. But that doesn't mean people are buying them. Its a hobby for me. Has to be. Hopefully it will have something good to offer when its done.

      I found a piece of plywood for a new speaker baffle. That and some epoxy should strengthen things up.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
        Not sure which chinese brands you mean. But for decades the best, most advanced ecap technology has been coming from Japan (no matter where the production sites actually are), think Rubicon, Chemicon, Nichicon, Matsushita/Panasonic etc. as well as Europe (Evox/Rifa, Philips/BC now Vishay, Siemens/Epcos).
        The ecap technology of Sprague (Atoms) and ILC must be considered inferior and outdated by today's standards.
        I've only been told the Chinese caps are inferior, never seen it so far in my short tenure as a tube amp guy.

        I will defer to your experienced opinion Helmholtz, and continue to use my Chengx branded caps.

        The ones I have installed still look good, and no failures or dimensional changes that I've seen so far in the past two years, so I will carry on !
        " Things change, not always for the better. " - Leo_Gnardo

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        • #34
          Well I would hope even the most generic modern caps would be an improvement when replacing 50-60 year old caps. What I avoid when buying components is the snake oil expensive stuff that only cork sniffers would buy.
          When the going gets weird... The weird turn pro!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by DrGonz78 View Post
            Well I would hope even the most generic modern caps would be an improvement when replacing 50-60 year old caps. What I avoid when buying components is the snake oil expensive stuff that only cork sniffers would buy.
            That's my thinking. I cant justify putting expensive components into an amp that was never made to be expensive and wont be worth much today either way. Leo Fender didnt use expensive components, so why should I.

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            • #36
              I've only been told the Chinese caps are inferior, never seen it so far in my short tenure as a tube amp guy.

              I will defer to your experienced opinion Helmholtz, and continue to use my Chengx branded caps.
              To be clear, I can't comment on Chinese brands. I doubt they are comparable to japanese quality, might look similar, though.
              Last edited by Helmholtz; 11-03-2019, 12:55 PM.
              - Own Opinions Only -

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
                To be clear, I can't comment on Chinese brands. I doubt they are comparable to japanese quality, might look similar, though.
                By the way I did check out roughly 50 Chinese made 450V filter caps (out of circuit) along the way with my ESR meter, and all of them past, and the values were very close to each other, with only two as outliers, as they were a bit further from the average but still good. Not too bad in my book, and the Price is incredibly low ! of course I will always have an eye on my own stuff to see how things look and act.

                If I was building or refurbishing an amp for a customer, I would indeed want to make sure all the caps were reliable, again for at least several years without any issues. Also, I would shotgun replace all caps in anything over 20 years old. I haven't automatically done that in my own amps, but I feel you would owe it to your customer to give them something reliable. I have changed my opinion on this, as I have bought vintage amps with all the caps bad in the last year, and they looked fairly good visually, and one can cap created a nasty short that took out a fat node resistor prior to the fuse blowing. So I wouldn't play a Russian Roulette game with a customer's amp. Only my own !
                Last edited by HaroldBrooks; 11-03-2019, 09:08 PM.
                " Things change, not always for the better. " - Leo_Gnardo

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                • #38
                  Baffle making time. The old one is good for a pattern. Thats about it.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by tigerzilly View Post
                    Baffle making time. The old one is good for a pattern. Thats about it.
                    There goes the Silver tone.. Looks good , other than the gained weight, it will make a solid improvement. Quite sure the masonite was all about $$$cheap$$$cheap$$$ production.
                    If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by shortcircuit View Post
                      There goes the Silver tone.. Quite sure the masonite was all about $$$cheap$$$cheap$$$ production.
                      They used the same masonite board inside the chassis for mounting terminal strips. I thought it interesting that the old baffle is stamped "Made in Finland".

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by tigerzilly View Post
                        They used the same masonite board inside the chassis for mounting terminal strips. I thought it interesting that the old baffle is stamped "Made in Finland".
                        Of course! Where else would you get "Baltic masonite"?
                        If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
                        If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
                        We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
                        MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

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                        • #42
                          New baffle is complete and in the cabinet. I also put a coat of clear epoxy on the exposed Particle board inside the cabinet and on the banged up edges. That should stabilize the wood so it doesn't keep crumbling.Click image for larger version

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                          Last edited by tigerzilly; 11-07-2019, 10:52 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Speaker cabinet is back together and speakers remounted. I replaced the all electrolytic caps except for the can capacitor, because I forgot to order a new base plate for the can cap. That's on order now.

                            I did another test and the amp and speaker sound good. I have to check the standby switch though. At first I thought I had very little volume then I realized it was on standby. I switched to operate and the volume is loud and sound is good. Not sure why I would hear any sound with the switch on standby.

                            The reverb works but I get feedback from it when I turn the reverb up much. I'll have to check into that.

                            I did some cosmetic work on the cab. I usually leave a vintage amp cab alone and accept the wear as part of the vintage thing. This had a few too many rips and missing pieces of covering so I touched the exposed wood with some paint. It still looks vintage, just not shabby.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by tigerzilly View Post
                              Speaker cabinet is back together and speakers remounted. I replaced the all electrolytic caps except for the can capacitor, because I forgot to order a new base plate for the can cap. That's on order now.

                              I did another test and the amp and speaker sound good. I have to check the standby switch though. At first I thought I had very little volume then I realized it was on standby. I switched to operate and the volume is loud and sound is good. Not sure why I would hear any sound with the switch on standby.

                              The reverb works but I get feedback from it when I turn the reverb up much. I'll have to check into that.

                              I did some cosmetic work on the cab. I usually leave a vintage amp cab alone and accept the wear as part of the vintage thing. This had a few too many rips and missing pieces of covering so I touched the exposed wood with some paint. It still looks vintage, just not shabby.

                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]55913[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]55914[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]55915[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]55916[/ATTACH]
                              That is how the standby is on these amps. They short the power tube grids together, but it is imperfect, so there is a bit of leakage. I consider it part of the charm of these amps.

                              Greg

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                              • #45
                                I've only been told the Chinese caps are inferior,
                                That assumes all CHinese caps are the same. "Chinese" is no more descriptive than "western". Good stuff comes from CHina, crappy stuff comes from China, middling stuff too.

                                Sprague Atoms are purposely oversized, they make them to sell to nostalgic older technicians, and audiophiles wanting some sort of originality in their stuff. If you cut open an Atom, you will find inside a smaller sized cap plus empty space around it.
                                Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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