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My worst idea ever? Greatest? Both? (12 stage pre)

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  • #16
    Thanks for the reply. I think your BAGA is pretty amazing! I've been stockpiling parts a little at a time for a largish amp build.

    jamie

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    • #17
      i've got two more 1650w opts and a couple of 1k4va power trannies (one donut, one EI) waiting to be put together.

      i used to work a lot with my amps, but then i had a daughter, bought a house, had another daughter. :lol:

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      • #18
        Aahhh... I had wondered why your posting tapered off some time ago. Building amps is great fun but building a home and family is funner.
        "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

        "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

        "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
        You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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        • #19
          Originally posted by kg View Post
          i've got two more 1650w opts and a couple of 1k4va power trannies (one donut, one EI) waiting to be put together.

          i used to work a lot with my amps, but then i had a daughter, bought a house, had another daughter. :lol:
          Yah I wondered what had happened to you also Ken. Maybe in time you can get your daughters to work on amps too.....haha. On second thought they probably won't be interested.....time to have a son!

          Greg

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          • #20
            Originally posted by soundmasterg View Post
            Maybe in time you can get your daughters to work on amps too.....haha. On second thought they probably won't be interested.....time to have a son!
            Maybe the girls won't want to build amps, but they may want to learn how to play instruments. I'm thinking bass and drums

            Chuck

            PS, I talked with a guy who owned one of those Carvin Quad amps and he said it was a hiss machine.
            "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

            "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

            "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
            You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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            • #21
              I remember decades ago when I first started fooling with this stuff, I had a Sound City 200 that had a couple of extra unused holes for preamp tubes. So knowing that I didn't know what I was doing I filled them with additional gain stages with tone control and level pots on each stage so I could dial in my excess. Ended up with one input jack and the other three holes filled with concentric pots for the level and tone pots. Yes, there was a surplus electronics shop right up the street from me. It actually ended up sounding pretty good. Unfortunately, despite all the knobs there were only like three good sounds in the thing.
              My rants, products, services and incoherent babblings on my blog.

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              • #22
                And what were those three good sounds?
                "Enzo, I see that you replied parasitic oscillations. Is that a hypothesis? Or is that your amazing metal band I should check out?"

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                • #23
                  That Carvin Quad thing sounds like processed cheese. Retarded design. The plate rail is low.....around 100v IIRC. I got one years ago for a good price and ended up adding another plate supply xfmr and associated caps/stuff to get a 320v rail. After that I jumped out a ton of bandwidth limiting SS circuits and redesigned the channel gain stages. I used a 3 stage for the dirt channels and left the clean alone for the most part other than some resistor/cap value changes. It sounds good now. Was a lot of work tho....
                  The farmer takes a wife, the barber takes a pole....

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                  • #24
                    Gtr_tech wrote:

                    That Carvin Quad thing sounds like processed cheese.

                    I like cheese:

                    YouTube - 0110_Carvin Quad-X-Amp - cabinet voicing sound demo

                    You have to stick around to get to the nutso 9-triode channel.

                    The noise gate triggers off the input, and gates at the output.

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                    • #25
                      Some of the tones are pretty interesting. It drives me crazy the way the background music ducks and returns and the way his voice is delayed from right to left- but it's a good show of what the unit is capable of. If I were the shredding sort of player I'd probably really like that box.

                      All of this leaves me wondering- wouldn't you rather have a bogner shiva and a delay pedal? It has enough distortion for 90% or more of music. I'll make an exception for really crunchy stuff that sounds good with an SLO or Dual Rect- but as far as I'm concerned 3 or 4 stages of 12ax7 gain is plenty.

                      jamie

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BackwardsBoB View Post
                        Gtr_tech wrote:

                        That Carvin Quad thing sounds like processed cheese.

                        I like cheese:

                        YouTube - 0110_Carvin Quad-X-Amp - cabinet voicing sound demo

                        You have to stick around to get to the nutso 9-triode channel.

                        The noise gate triggers off the input, and gates at the output.

                        The nutso channel has 11 stages in series. Watching that video brought back the hour or so I played around with mine it its stock form. Hated it then....hate it now. Total squash....no dynamics. Artificial sounding at best.....
                        The farmer takes a wife, the barber takes a pole....

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by imaradiostar View Post
                          but as far as I'm concerned 3 or 4 stages of 12ax7 gain is plenty.
                          Four is plenty for sure. It's entirely within reach to get to a well refined and fully square wave form with four. You could actually get there with three but it won't sound as nice. My personal amp uses three but there's actually quite a bit of attenuation. The preamp clips in cutoff at full tilt but no crazy OD there. But this amp is built to be cranked so that means the PI and power tubes are in OD. So that's three stages clipping and/or over driving which I guess would be about the same as four preamp stages (one to OD the next a little, then two more). I like it both ways really. A good high gain preamp is fun if you have the power to amplify it. I think a true fifty watts minimum for this kind of amp since you never really want to OD the power tubes. Part of the point of the high gain preamp is being able to EQ the distortion. Clip the power tubes and that gets lost. But my amp of choice will always include power tube OD and then EQ by transformer choice and speakers. With a 4x12 I can get a very appropriate "metal" tone from my personal build, but "I" like it best through it's own 1x12 combo speaker.

                          Then there's the classic Marshall with a distortion pedal. Who doesn't love that??? I've done many recordings and gig's with such a rig and I can't think of a good reason to pick a Soldono instead.

                          Lots of ways to get high gain.

                          Chuck
                          "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                          "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                          "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                          You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            thanks Chuck. I'll make another rampant generalization if you'll allow it.

                            Most 3 stage preamps (early master volume marshall or bogner shiva, for example) clean up reasonably well with the volume knob. I've never heard a 4 stage mesa or SLO or similar do that quite as well.

                            Thoughts?

                            Maybe this is less of a stages thing and more of a cold cathode thing- perhaps that 39k cathode resistor is making that 12ax7 into a good crispy distortion element but destroying its ability to pass a clean tone.

                            jamie
                            Last edited by imaradiostar; 10-01-2010, 01:45 PM. Reason: /hard heard /make making

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by imaradiostar View Post
                              Most 3 stage preamps (early master volume marshall or bogner shiva, for example) clean up reasonably well with the volume knob. I've never heard a 4 stage mesa or SLO or similar do that quite as well.

                              Thoughts?
                              The way I play, that is an absolute must. Not only to clean up to get close to a clean tone, but to get different sounds from the same pickup....without stepping on buttons. I need versatility rather than "insane gain"....
                              The farmer takes a wife, the barber takes a pole....

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by imaradiostar View Post
                                thanks Chuck. I'll make another rampant generalization if you'll allow it.

                                Most 3 stage preamps (early master volume marshall or bogner shiva, for example) clean up reasonably well with the volume knob. I've never heard a 4 stage mesa or SLO or similar do that quite as well.

                                Thoughts?

                                Maybe this is less of a stages thing and more of a cold cathode thing- perhaps that 39k cathode resistor is making that 12ax7 into a good crispy distortion element but destroying its ability to pass a clean tone.

                                jamie
                                VHT Deliverance in the "more" mode (4 stages) can clean up well with the volume knob, see video below. 10k cold cathode stage, though I'm not sure that's where all the trickery is.
                                YouTube - vht deliverance 60 dynamics
                                -Mike

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