Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Active electronics is guitar?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by rjb View Post
    I'm not getting it either. I would "think" the toggle would give you a choice between "standard Tele" and "really bright Tele" sound. ?????

    -rb
    That's what I wanted to get away from - most preamps I tried just gave more of the same with a top-end boost which was often harsh. One thing a Tele doesn't need is more top-end.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
      That's what I wanted to get away from - most preamps I tried just gave more of the same with a top-end boost which was often harsh. One thing a Tele doesn't need is more top-end.
      Maybe I misunderstood. So... your preamp is more than just a buffer?
      DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

      Comment


      • #33
        Since the real advantage of a preamp in a guitar is the low impedance output most designs offer that. The "harsh"ness is likely a consequence of no loading from the guitar cable capacitance. You lose the resonant peak around 3k or 4k and the roll off above that in trade for almost no peak and almost no roll off of higher HF.
        "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

        "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

        "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
        You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
          You lose the resonant peak around 3k or 4k and the roll off above that in trade for almost no peak and almost no roll off of higher HF.
          Yea, I've got all that. What I don't get is how a preamp can make a Tele sound like a Les Paul. I must be missing something.

          -rb
          DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

          Comment


          • #35
            Well surely some designs are "tuned" to pull off trick EQ and output with the right settings. It's probably handy-ish in the right circumstances. I just find the simplicity of a plain pickup through a cord and into a tube grid too charming to mess with
            "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

            "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

            "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
            You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by rjb View Post
              Yea, I've got all that. What I don't get is how a preamp can make a Tele sound like a Les Paul. I must be missing something.

              -rb
              A *buffer* will not change sound, unity gain flat band by definition, but removing huge cable capacitance will let highs reach the amp, instead of dying along the path.
              This will be perceived as "treble boost" although it isn´t so.

              Now a *preamp* can do anything you design it to, from any amount of gain to any EQ you fancy.

              Nobody said "it will sound like a Les Paul" but for example preamps built into a Fender Elite or Eric Clapton are labelled: "mid boost" which gives you a hint they are not flat at all.

              I checked the Fender preamp:


              and it´s easy to see that:
              a) it´s a discrete Op Amp.
              *Maybe* when they designed it 20/30 years ago they didn´t find an Op Amp which was both low power, low noise and low power consumption, although I guess designer was just lazy or old school and did it the old way.
              FWIW design style is similar to what you find in old Japanese Squire amps same era so I wouldn´t be surprised this was also designed there.

              b) gain is 7X (100k/15k)+1 , and 100k is shunted by .001uF so gain is down 6 db at 1600Hz, so flat up to 800Hz ....midrange boost indeed.

              So it will not *clone* a LP by any means, but it may "replace" it in a song, easily having 2X/3X as much power as before, easily overdriving, say, a Plexi, with more midrange and NO "Fender sparkle/chime" at all.

              Besides, full gain boost is 25dB, which is firebreathing dragon gain by any means.

              It will easily surpass any EMG equipped guitar.

              On the other side, today almost forgotten Alembic Stratoblaster offered a HUGE Strat sound with no change in EQ:

              Juan Manuel Fahey

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
                Nobody said "it will sound like a Les Paul"
                Well, not exactly. But somebody did say this:
                Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                Many of the players that used to take out a Tele and LP now just use their Tele and flip between active/passive.
                Thanks for your explanation:
                Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
                So it will not *clone* a LP by any means, but it may "replace" it in a song, easily having 2X/3X as much power as before, easily overdriving, say, a Plexi, with more midrange and NO "Fender sparkle/chime" at all.
                I'm satisfied with that.
                DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Indeed, any so-called "clean booster" desperately needs a treble-cut control so that boosting to push the amp a little harder doesn't bring out harshness in the amp.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    There is another tone forming issue that gets little attention, transient response. The research shows that the first 30 milli-seconds of a transient affects the perception of the sound. https://www.researchgate.net/publica...sient_Response

                    When a string is initially plucked its horizontal motion will generate increased second harmonics initially until the string rotates to the circular or oblong vibration pattern. Look at the Fender bass pickups with two poles per string, with the string located in the center of it's two pole pieces. The web posted reactions and feeling about these pickups is that they are less muddy than single pole bass pickups. What happens is that the initial horizontal string pulse passes each of string pole pieces once in a full cycle but generate an initial higher second harmonic above the fundamental note frequency with each side to side movement. So, as you can see it is not only equalization that affects the string sound, but also the mechanics of generating the sound with the magnet arrangement relative to the string position and initial string movement direction.

                    I have always thought that using a 7 pole piece guitar pickups on 6 string guitar with the string location in between the pole pieces offered a different sound. This is mostly noticeable on the initial transient sound and helps cut through the sound of other instruments when playing live, not when sampling the pickup at low listening levels. I experimented with dual set of .125" diameter magnets (.5" long) per string and could see, on a scope, a definite increase in second harmonic signal on the initial transient.

                    I just thought I would offer a new perspective on this interesting discussion. I really like active buffering to expand the tonal spectrum of passive pickups but pole piece location relative to the string is another alternative that should be discussed and considered as well.

                    Joseph J. Rogowski
                    Last edited by bbsailor; 06-17-2018, 03:25 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rjb View Post
                      Yea, I've got all that. What I don't get is how a preamp can make a Tele sound like a Les Paul. I must be missing something.

                      -rb
                      I never said it sounded like a Les Paul - what I said was "Many of the players that used to take out a Tele and LP now just use their Tele and flip between active/passive." There are many aspects of the pickup's output that can be tailored to give a sound that's good enough to be a functional substitute for swapping guitars - especially where the song has been recorded with a single-coil rhythm and humbucker lead. Bear in mind that most people go to see a band to enjoy the music, not to carry out a forensic analysis of the sound.

                      Here's an insight of this with Billy Gibbons rig where different guitars are EQ-profiled to sound as near to each other as possible (8:40 onwards);
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6DrxfrbbF8

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Not mentioned so far in the thread is the use of active electronics with a dummy coil to reduce the hum of a single coil pickup...

                        Steve A.

                        P.S. With the gain from an onboard preamp you can overdrive and shape the sound of a tele plugged into a BF/SF amp to resemble a Les Paul to some extent. As for a Tele being harsh and bright a great blues player explained to me how he would adjust the unnumbered tele knobs to get whatever sound he wanted... he never just set them to 10 and left them there. D'oh! I used to solder caps and resistors to the eyelets of some of my tele bridge pickups to smooth them out...

                        While we usually associate Mike Bloomfield with the 1959 Les Paul he got from Dan Erlewine all of his recordings with Bob Dylan and many of them with Paul Butterfield featured him playing a tele. For one thing there is a lot in common between the middle blend position of both guitars.
                        The Blue Guitar
                        www.blueguitar.org
                        Some recordings:
                        https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
                        .

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                          Here's an insight of this with Billy Gibbons rig where different guitars are EQ-profiled to sound as near to each other as possible
                          Wow. Owns well over 450 guitars and EQs them to all sound the same. I don't think I'll ever understand that.
                          Think I'll stick to acoustics (mostly).
                          DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            On thought I had along the way when I was developing preamp circuits was if it would be feasible to take a hearing-aid board and adapt it for guitar use. They have low power requirements and many are programmable with EQ curves that can easily be customized via USB. Off-the-shelf programmable graphic EQ chips (either digital or resistor programmable analogue signal path) are quite bulky compared to those used in hearing aids.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                              ...would be feasible to take a hearing-aid board and adapt it for guitar use
                              In the U.S., you'd probably be required to have a prescription for it.
                              DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X