dimensions for vintage or ideal P90 cover

[pickupjunkie]

Okay guys I have ordered nickel silver material and just spoke with the machinist we will begin making dies tommorow. I have modern p90 plastic covers and obviously my material will not be as thick as the plastic. I would like your opinion on ideal outside measurements length x height x width and corner radius.

He also suggested as another way to dress them up was, following polishing, possibly applying stencil material and sand blasting unique designs (a method similiar to the old national guitars with fillagree and palm tree designs) A good idea I think as long as its tastefully done.

Thanks in advance for your help I will get the p90s done first then do some humbuckers

[belwar]

Well tell you what, I'll give you some help with this project since you're taking it to the next step.

As far as I know what you are looking for currently doesnt exist. I dont believe gibson every actually made a Nickel Silver cover for the soap bar pickups (someone please correct me if im wrong, i am a noobl!) - Though I believe there was a NS dogear. All of the covers that are out there are the modern plastic covers that are about 1/16"-3/32" or so thick (I dont have one in front of me). The problem is that a cover that thick in nickel silver would KILL a P-90. When Seth Lover designed the PAF humbucker, he didnt want a cover, but gibson wanted one for production purposes so it got a cover.

I think if you are really going to dive into this you need to back up 2 steps before leaping 3 ahead. I would suggest drawing up the whole pickup in a CAD or Solids program ( I could do this if you needed). You will likely have to make two parts - a baseplate with sides (like a humbucker) and a cover long enough to be soldered to the baseplate. Now the bad news - None of this would be vintage correct - but frankly who cares! Sometimes you can come up with some cool new stuff that no one has. Your ultimate goal should be a cover as thin as possible without being fragile, and if you plate them very thin nickel plating.

I've also read that there are two different "standard" P-90 covers out there, the original vintage ones had a slightly different radius on the corners than the modern ones. Seymour duncan also makes his own (something to do with he doesnt like the mounting screw positions on the existing one if I remember right).

What thickness NS did you order? A baseplate should be a 0.03"-0.031" and i can measure a cover accurately tommorow. Find out if your machinist uses solid works. If he does I'll post a solid works file. If not find out if he can use a DXF/DWG file. If he cant do that, then I'll design one and turn it into a PDF.

b.

[David Schwab]

Actually Lover wanted a closed covers on the humbucker, which is what his prototype had. I had rad somewhere that he wanted stainless steel, but settled for nickel silver when Gibson wouldn't do the steel cover, and he said they put in the adjustable screws as a marketing ploy.

1978 Seth E. Lover Interview on Gibson Humbucking Pickups

A metal cover will alter the tone somewhat, but not any more than a P-90 in a dog ear cover. Shouldn't be too bad if you keep it thin. I would think you want to hold the outside dimensions of a P-90 cover.

I'd like to find some plastic P-90 covers with no holes.

[pickupjunkie]

Well tell you what, I'll give you some help with this project since you're taking it to the next step.

As far as I know what you are looking for currently doesnt exist. I dont believe gibson every actually made a Nickel Silver cover for the soap bar pickups (someone please correct me if im wrong, i am a noobl!) - Though I believe there was a NS dogear. All of the covers that are out there are the modern plastic covers that are about 1/16"-3/32" or so thick (I dont have one in front of me). The problem is that a cover that thick in nickel silver would KILL a P-90. When Seth Lover designed the PAF humbucker, he didnt want a cover, but gibson wanted one for production purposes so it got a cover.

I think if you are really going to dive into this you need to back up 2 steps before leaping 3 ahead. I would suggest drawing up the whole pickup in a CAD or Solids program ( I could do this if you needed). You will likely have to make two parts - a baseplate with sides (like a humbucker) and a cover long enough to be soldered to the baseplate. Now the bad news - None of this would be vintage correct - but frankly who cares! Sometimes you can come up with some cool new stuff that no one has. Your ultimate goal should be a cover as thin as possible without being fragile, and if you plate them very thin nickel plating.

I've also read that there are two different "standard" P-90 covers out there, the original vintage ones had a slightly different radius on the corners than the modern ones. Seymour duncan also makes his own (something to do with he doesnt like the mounting screw positions on the existing one if I remember right).

What thickness NS did you order? A baseplate should be a 0.03"-0.031" and i can measure a cover accurately tommorow. Find out if your machinist uses solid works. If he does I'll post a solid works file. If not find out if he can use a DXF/DWG file. If he cant do that, then I'll design one and turn it into a PDF.

b.

Thanks a lot for your help..... I ordered .023 nickel silver which has arrived. The machinist does us Autocad and some solids works software however not sure if he uses solidworks. They use Mastercam to run the CNC not sure if it will read a solidworks file or not maybe you know.
My main reason for the covers really isn't to be vintage correct but to have something different from whats available out there. I wanted to make them a "standard" size primarily so they could be used as replacements for existing p-90 routes. I really do appreciate your help .... and when I have some in hand I will gladly share them with you if you think you might be interested.
Thanks

[belwar]

Well you're in luck, as im a mastercam programmer!

I'll start drawing it up tonight, and it will probably take me a few days to finish. I actually have my P-90 parts allready drawn up in mastercam with the exception of the cover and baseplate, which shouldnt take me too long. If you can wait a few days I'll make solid models out of everything. If you can let me know what version of mastercam he's running, and also if he has Mastercam Solids.

b.

[pickupjunkie]

Well you're in luck, as im a mastercam programmer!

I'll start drawing it up tonight, and it will probably take me a few days to finish. I actually have my P-90 parts allready drawn up in mastercam with the exception of the cover and baseplate, which shouldnt take me too long. If you can wait a few days I'll make solid models out of everything. If you can let me know what version of mastercam he's running, and also if he has Mastercam Solids.

b.

Well I'll be!!! Im sure hes running the lastest version of mastercam but I will check and see tommorow. We use an older version here on our router too. I dont use the router much because I like to build them (guitars) the old school way its good therapy lol. I have been thinking seriously about building a duplicating carver for the carved tops. Mucho Gracias again for your help its awesome .... I really do appreciate it....

[belwar]

Well I'll be!!! Im sure hes running the lastest version of mastercam but I will check and see tommorow. We use an older version here on our router too. I dont use the router much because I like to build them (guitars) the old school way its good therapy lol. I have been thinking seriously about building a duplicating carver for the carved tops. Mucho Gracias again for your help its awesome .... I really do appreciate it....

If you have access to a CNC or a router with Z-travel, dont bother with a duplicator. Just design and machine the top. We do that with out mandos and they look and sound great.

[belwar]

I fianlly got down to drawing today and took some measurements to decide what to do. I dont have a old gibi so I can't give you precision measurements from a vintage one. I do however have covers from a have dozen current makers, and pickups from Lollar and Seymour Duncan. I believe that the Seymours are the most Vintage accurate ... HOWEVER, if people want to use off the shelf parts like bobbins then you have to use the spacing of the new ones... Here is an example...

From the center of one mounting screw to the center of the next mount screw
- Seymour Duncans: 0.766"
- Cover from WD Music: 0.78" - 0.7815"

String Spacing
- Seymour Duncans: 1.922" or 48.81mm
- Cover from WD Music: 1.950" or 49.53mm

Personally I like the wider string spread better so, as an FYI to you I'm drawing the design for you from the WD cover. I had a hard time measuring the corner radius. I'm pretty sure its 3/16" but if anyone knows for sure please advise.

[pickupjunkie]

I am pretty sure the radius on these lollars I have is 3/16

thanks Belwar

[belwar]

well I finished drawing the cover last night but have one mistake to correct. I think I put to much fillet on the edge of the top. right now I have it at 1/8 diameter but looking at the wd cover I think it is more like 7/64 diameter. I was thinking though that I might make the edge like a humbucker cover which is around 6/64th.

also, I drew holes for the pole screw on it, but I was thinking its better to make them without holes and do them after the fact. that way you could use these covers for either style P90 or cut the center out for mini buckers

[David Schwab]

A nice smooth edge could look really good.

It would also look really cool with no holes! (for custom designs, i.e., with blades)

I'd buy some of those.

[belwar]

Well here is a screen cap of the cover as it is. I figure I can leave the edges rounder because of the fact the inside space under the cover is larger (larger volume). Thoughts?

[Spence]

The depth of the cover is something to consider as they may not fit a Gibson style baseplate. Here's a pic of my repros. You'll notice a flange on the baseplate that holds the magnets in place. This is why WD and Allparts covers will not fit.

[pickupjunkie]

well I finished drawing the cover last night but have one mistake to correct. I think I put to much fillet on the edge of the top. right now I have it at 1/8 diameter but looking at the wd cover I think it is more like 7/64 diameter. I was thinking though that I might make the edge like a humbucker cover which is around 6/64th.

also, I drew holes for the pole screw on it, but I was thinking its better to make them without holes and do them after the fact. that way you could use these covers for either style P90 or cut the center out for mini buckers

Belwar that looks awesome. I agree with leaving it blank. The machinist also suggested that I leave them blank to allow for custom mods should other makers want to work with them. My feeling is that the outside dimensions are the most critical for fitting existing routes. Although for my purpose I build the guitar so it doesnt matter but there a lots of guitars with routes to fit the existing soapbar covers. I will laser cut mine for holes, designs etc. Im open to suggestions from you pickup pros.
Thanks

I have the machinist on hold until we can kind of get a consensus of sorts about the best approach. As ya'll know I don't build pickups thats why Im here to get ideas from you winders.

[David Schwab]

I've seen people asking for P-90 covers with no holes, so I think that would be a great idea. No one makes them! I'd also be interested in getting some.