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"Lost" design techniques

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  • "Lost" design techniques

    As I was going through and checking bias for the preamp tubes in my salvaged Hammond M2, I quickly realized that something like four preamp stages are sharing 1 cathode resistor! This seemed strange to me, and I quickly chalked it up to bean counters saving change. I left it alone, each tube seemed to be doing ok and the organ was sounding good (after replacing a few 1M+ "100k" carbon comps...).

    I was thinking about this, and I think they may have been on to something though. In a theoretical example, imagine 4 preamp tubes. Most of their cathode bias is established across one (of course much smaller in value) cathode resistor. In sine wave conditions, the current draw of the "in-phase" preamp valves counter-acts the current draw of the "out-of-phase" stages...this would cancel the "common mode" cathode signal between the two, allowing the resistor to approximate a CCS without the inherent degeneration in an unbypassed Rk. Each phase pushes current the opposite way, stabilizing currents. I guess in a more modern design, we might want to have all small resistors from this "CCS" to the later tubes to establish more headroom, but still keeping the current cancel effect.

    So I was wondering if this is a lost design technique, or I'm just overthinking it. Good idea/Bad idea? Some of the early tube designs seem to entirely avoid the 60s and onward design canon, while still sounding pretty neat.

  • #2
    In my view, simpler/cheaper wins out every time over esoteric technical rationalization.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Enzo View Post
      In my view, simpler/cheaper wins out every time over esoteric technical rationalization.
      I remember a country and western song titled "Occam's Razor"...
      Amazing!! Who would ever have guessed that someone who villified the evil rich people would begin happily accepting their millions in speaking fees!

      Oh, wait! That sounds familiar, somehow.

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      • #4
        probably true...I realized that since the signal is in fact amplified, the current draws probably wouldn't cancel so well. Man I need a scope, without that technical rationalization is all I got . The self-split topology got me thinking about shared cathode resistors in other places.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 6267 View Post
          probably true...I realized that since the signal is in fact amplified, the current draws probably wouldn't cancel so well. Man I need a scope, without that technical rationalization is all I got . The self-split topology got me thinking about shared cathode resistors in other places.

          I think you do have a point. You just have to watch out for in phase signals along the same signal path sending low freq feedback. You need a huge bypass cap. I think it's one of the reasons a shared cathode Marshall sounds like it does especially when you jump channels.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ETR View Post
            You just have to watch out for in phase signals along the same signal path sending low freq feedback.
            +1

            Having cascaded stages share a common cathode impedance is how you make a square wave ocillator- it's not recommended for anything but the crudest of audio designs, where a bit of instability won't be noticed.

            Of course, if the stages are not cascaded into one another (they're all four separate input stages say) then there's no harm in it, except that you can't voice each stage individually, and if the cathode resistor isn't properly bypassed then you'll get crosstalk between inputs (basically you have an LTP).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Merlinb View Post
              +1

              Having cascaded stages share a common cathode impedance is how you make a square wave ocillator- it's not recommended for anything but the crudest of audio designs, where a bit of instability won't be noticed.

              Of course, if the stages are not cascaded into one another (they're all four separate input stages say) then there's no harm in it, except that you can't voice each stage individually, and if the cathode resistor isn't properly bypassed then you'll get crosstalk between inputs (basically you have an LTP).

              That "bit of instabilty" is what you're sometimes after with a guitar amp. For instance really low value main filter caps.

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              • #8
                I think then at least it could be said to contribute something to that raunchy Hammond tone when cranked, I don't believe it was bypassed. I am pretty sure the amp wasn't stock, it looked like it had been modified in an attempt to create a line out, hard to tell...got it free and fixed it enough to work & sound good. Not sure if they had removed the bypass there, but it was certainly stable. The organ is currently at a friend's "studio garage", if it ever blows up or stops working and it needs service I'll have to look at it again. It was just something I hadn't seen in any other design, so it was kinda nagging at my brain for a while.

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