I see Crate's Problem with the Palomino V32

[rockon1]

PBWY.

[The Dude]

Admittedly, wrong and persistent is no way to go through life. That said, I for one wish to thank SGM for purveying his nonsense. It's this kind of unsubstantiated rhetoric splattered about the internet that has allowed me to pick up several great sounding used amps at a fraction of the price of other "boutique" amps of nearly identical build quality and tonal characteristics.

[soundguruman]

Admittedly, wrong and persistent is no way to go through life. That said, I for one wish to thank SGM for purveying his nonsense. It's this kind of unsubstantiated rhetoric splattered about the internet that has allowed me to pick up several great sounding used amps at a fraction of the price of other "boutique" amps of nearly identical build quality and tonal characteristics.

FYI crate was the laughing stock of the entire pro sound industry.
Even their factory techs admitted:

"Crate amps are not intended for continuous operation."
"Crate amps are for temporary use only."
This comes directly from Crate Factory Service Department, in Saint Louis, Missouri, USA.

I reached the point, where I would just take the board and sent it to the factory techs...
Because I don't want to take responsibility for it.

That turned out to be a very good decision...
When repaired units blew up (as usual) the blame was entirely on CRATE. And NOT on ME.

[rockon1]

FYI crate was the laughing stock of the entire pro sound industry.
Even their factory techs admitted:

"Crate amps are not intended for continuous operation."
"Crate amps are for temporary use only."
This comes directly from Crate Factory Service Department, in Saint Louis, Missouri, USA.

I reached the point, where I would just take the board and sent it to the factory techs...
Because I don't want to take responsibility for it.

That turned out to be a very good decision...
When repaired units blew up (as usual) the blame was entirely on CRATE. And NOT on ME.

Of course!-we knew that. Were just messin with ya! Bob

[The Dude]

FYI crate was the laughing stock of the entire pro sound industry.
Even their factory techs admitted:

"Crate amps are not intended for continuous operation."
"Crate amps are for temporary use only."
This comes directly from Crate Factory Service Department, in Saint Louis, Missouri, USA.

I reached the point, where I would just take the board and sent it to the factory techs...
Because I don't want to take responsibility for it.

That turned out to be a very good decision...
When repaired units blew up (as usual) the blame was entirely on CRATE. And NOT on ME.

Again, THANK YOU!!! The price of used Vintage Club Crate amps just went down another $20.

[soundguruman]

Of course!-we knew that. Were just messin with ya! Bob

Every single music store owner I know of, dropped the crate line.

Too many (repeated/multiple) returns, too many pissed off customers.

[rockon1]

Every single music store owner I know of, dropped the crate line.

Too many (repeated/multiple) returns, too many pissed off customers.

Too many kids frightfully abusing their equipment I imagine.
Anyhow Ive owned numerous Crates - zero,yes zero problems. My son broke a solder joint on his VC50 input jack-(price point pcb mounted caveat).Lets see-1 Stealth 50 combo, 1 Stealth 50 head, 2 VC50 heads, and my V32 Palomino. Zero problems in the last 15 years. They have been gigged and cranked. Used but not abused. That record speaks for itself. Yeah I know they aren't the most robustly built-nothing at their price point is.
Anyhow Crate I know hasn't really been in business for a while now. After the sell out to Loud Technologies a few years back it was all over IMO. Bob

[The Dude]

The Crate Vintage Club Series amps were designed by Obeid Kahn who has worked with SLM, Reason, Magnatone, and numerous other amp builders. He was tasked to build a good sounding all tube amp at an affordable price. IMO, he was very successful at achieving this goal. Both the upside and the downside of this was/is that, because of Crate's reputation for building rather raunchy sounding solid state amps prior to this, few people gave them a listen or a chance. I say "upside" because you can pick these up very reasonably priced used on the web.

I used to be one of the naysayers until years ago Great White was playing in town. One of their amps had gone down and was brought into my shop for repair. I was quite surprised that what showed up was a Crate VC amp. At the time, these guys could have used whatever they wanted for free. So, I wondered, "Why the hell are they using Crates?". I repaired the amp (broken tube- simple repair) and then plugged into it (as I always do) to test it. I quickly figured out why they were using them...it sounded amazing- at any price. I went out and bought one. The other guitar player in my band bought two and two other friends each bought one after hearing mine. These are all picky and experienced players. Of these 5 amps, I have only replaced one tube total. NO OTHER REPAIRS after years of use.

Price back up $20.

[York1066]

Hello, could someone please clear up something for me:

I have the USA made v3112, I love it but the controls get super hot, isn't it the same schematic as the Palomino? I.e., will this resistor-relocation mod work the same?

(I have a clip-on desk fan that I'm going to start using with it, but I'd also like to fix the issue rather than just put a band-aid on it. Been playing for 20 years and this is the first amp that I've ever been pretty much completely satisfied with. So I want it to last.)

Thanks for any advice. I just want to be sure before I start taking stuff apart.

[Jazz P Bass]

Unless the amp is biased super hot, there really is nothing to 'fix'.
They run hot.
Period.

If you feel uncomfortable running the amp that way, you can place a fan in/ on it.

[Steve A.]

I have the USA made v3112, I love it but the controls get super hot, isn't it the same schematic as the Palomino? I.e., will this resistor-relocation mod work the same?

Looking at the schematic I have for the VC-3112 it uses 4 cathode biased EL84's with a 60 ohm/10 watt cathode resistor. You can take a peek at the pcb to see if this big resistor is located near the controls in which case you might want to relocate it. However you might consider replacing it with a larger resistor, like 75 ohms (you can use two 150 ohm/5 watt resistors in parallel to get the equivalent of 75 ohm/10 watt.) Once you have the chassis out you can measure the B+ at the plate of the EL84's and the voltage between the cathode and ground to determine the bias current that your power tubes are drawing. (It could be that your power tubes are running too hot.)

Steve

[York1066]

Okay, so this is a fixed-bias amp, then? I've had it for about six years, played it fairly regularly when I first got it, then it was in storage for about 4 years, and I've been playing it regularly again for about the past year, and it still has the original GT's in it, and they still seem OK. I guess I just need to open it up and see about that resistor. I thought I had read somewhere that the 3112 has pretty much the same resistor in the same location, so I'm hoping I can do the swap for the two 150's and alleviate the problem. I've had no issues because of the heat yet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

Thanks Steve

[Tone Meister]

Hello, could someone please clear up something for me: ... I love it but the controls get super hot ... will this resistor-relocation mod work the same?

Yes it sure will, and an added bonus is that tube life can be extended also. I used a 50-watt 75-ohm chassis mount wirewound resistor on my 3112 and it idles right at 100%.

[Steve A.]

Every single music store owner I know of, dropped the crate line. Too many (repeated/multiple) returns, too many pissed off customers.

What prompted Guitar Center and Musicians Friend to drop the line of Crate tubes amps was the line of V18/V33/V50 amps that were made in China which was having an extreme high failure rate. MF was blowing these amps out at a fraction of the MSRP just to get rid of them. I got a V33H from MF and found the welds holding the heavy OT to its bracket broken and it was hanging from the bottom of the chassis by 2 screws. I called up MF customer service and they told me that they were dropping Crate tube amps because they were shorting out and exploding! BTW I called LOUD Technologies and they mailed me a new transformer. They didn't want the old one back so I had a friend weld the bracket back on so I have a spare.

I ended up buying 4 or 5 V18-112's and 2 V33H's dirt cheap just to experiment with mods on them and found many problems with the physical design. Like having some of the big resistors mounted well off the pcb which was a good idea but if the resistors were bumped at all they could short out against over components (not so good.) The factory schematic for one of the amps had reference numbers which did not correspond to the pcb.

Taking everything in stride Loud Technologies decided to drop the Crate line of tube amps, and started the line of Blackheart tube amps, which seems to be a big step in the right direction. These amps are made in China as well but as long as you give the factories there good instructions, pcb layouts, etc., they can come out with high quality products at reasonable prices.

Steve

[York1066]

Yes it sure will, and an added bonus is that tube life can be extended also. I used a 50-watt 75-ohm chassis mount wirewound resistor on my 3112 and it idles right at 100%.

Awesome, so you didn't do two 150's in parallel, you just used a higher wattage 75? And you mounted it off of the chassis, right?