Danger of helping Single Post members

[bnwitt]

It seems to me that recently there are lots of single post members asking for help fixing problems with their guitar amps. I am concerned that this site is (through some word of mouth phenomenon) becoming the place for players with no electronics training whatsoever to come and ask for information they think will help them fix their amps and avoid paying the local tech, but in their effort to save $100 they may put themselves in harms way.

I think in the interest of protecting folks from electrocution there should be some reserve exercised (by those of us who only wish to help) that protects inexperienced newbies from stoppng their hearts in the money saving effort.

What do the rest of you think? Should we be concerned with the potential death of the frugally minded or should we just say the hell with it and let them take their chances?

[anthillrich]

perhaps there are "newbies" with plenty of experience in dealing with lethal voltages, just little experience with tube amps. just a thought.

[loudthud]

There are times you can tell by the way the question is asked that the poster has very little if any experience. I try to give some general advise and ask for more information. Perhaps a question to probe the poster's knowledge. Atleast some of the time the poster realizes he is in over his head. I wouldn't object to a disclaimer that you have to get past when you log in that says you will hold the board and other posters harmless and that you work on amps at your own risk.

One area that is most troubling is an amp that was fine but developed an intermittent problem that requires power on probing. Another is getting a newly built amp running correctly. I started working on amps when I was about 14 and never would have gotten most projects working without a mentor.

Another issue is posters that have a poor command of the English language. Sometimes things don't translate well. Coca-Cola had a slogan, "Coke adds life". Translated to Chinese and back it was "Coke brings your ancestors back from the dead". I'm sure technical words can get twisted just as easily.

My biggest peeves:

No location information. At least tell me what country you are from.
No age info
No info on what amp you are working on
No effort to search for the answer

[Chuck H]

My biggest peeves:

No location information. At least tell me what country you are from.
No age info
No info on what amp you are working on
No effort to search for the answer

I can get behind those last two. We're all tired of that guy who pops in with something like "I have a Fender amp that started humming and sputtering today" along with "Any help, schematic, would be great"

Clues that this guy can't be helped:
Thinks "Fender" is enough info about the circuit.
Thinks "humming"...is enough info about the problem.
Asks for a schematic without trying to find one for themselves.

What this guy would really like is for someone to post and say "Send it to me and I'll fix it for you." Or at least "Spray a bunch of switch cleaner on it and it'll be fine." They have not opened the amp to look for burned or loose componants or done a tube swap or any of the no brainer stuff that your average lump of coal could figure out and they are already asking someone to do their research for them even though they don't have the regard to include important information in their post.

Send 'em to a tech.

The other one that I hate (for different reasons) is the person that is obviously too clueless to handle any diagnosis or repair but has the humility to admit it. Clearly this is someone who can't afford to get their amp fixed.

Send 'em to a tech.

It beats putting them at risk.

It can be a tough call and I always expect to get flack for saying to a poster "find a tech". But sometimes it's the obvious answer.

I almost did it the other day when a poster said something like "I changed the tubes in my amp but it still runs too hot and blows fuses even with the bias pot turned all the way down. Should I reduce the 220k bias resistors on the power tube grids to make it cooler?"

I decided to explain the situation. It seemed like they had some common sense but not knowledge. It was a close call though.

Chuck

[Don Moose]

This is why, when addressing a confessed n00b or someone with whom I am not familiar, I make a point of stressing that tube circuits contain genuinely lethal voltages, and a couple of simple ways to avoid harm.

That and trying to ask enough questions to get the needed information out of the querant to be useful do get old, but we don't want to turn into a closed, clubby clique ... do we?

[grathan]

how many single poster's posts do you reply to? Surely a mention of lethal voltages couldn't hurt if your truly concerned.

[bnwitt]

Lots of good thoughts. I know that protecting the board and members with a disclaimer is probably important, but my main concern is protecting someone who doesn't have the skills to be poking around in an electronic device.

I empathize with the beginner as I was a newb once but I just don't want to be part of helping someone kill themselves and preventing him/her from getting to the next level of life.

[bnwitt]

how many single poster's posts do you reply to? Surely a mention of lethal voltages couldn't hurt if your truly concerned.

As of late, lots of them. Now with you 1 more. It seems over the last few weeks there has been an inrush of first posters. I am thinking the bad economy is driving a DIY movement. And grathan, there is no need to inform you about lethal voltages due to the nature of your question. Welcome to the forum.

[boyt_bpc]

As a very low post member, I would like to say that I have no experience on guitar amps, but have the knowledge to do it safely, friends who are in hi-fi electronics that help me, and I want to learn.

I just did my first mod on my Blues Junior last night. Drained the caps, checked them with my VOM, and always kept my left hand in my pocket.

[bnwitt]

As a very low post member, I would like to say that I have no experience on guitar amps, but have the knowledge to do it safely, friends who are in hi-fi electronics that help me, and I want to learn.

I just did my first mod on my Blues Junior last night. Drained the caps, checked them with my VOM, and always kept my left hand in my pocket.

Good for you boyt. I'd think twice about that old one hand in pocket rule though. It makes for very awkward functionality and can cause more problems than it prevents.

[stokes]

For the most part,as loudthud points out,you can tell by the way a question is posed that the warning is needed.Most of us do give a warning ,and when we overlook it,someone usually jumps in and does.A disclaimer that one has to get past in order to post wouldnt be a bad idea,but would it be possible to do it in some way so someone like Enzo wouldnt have to take that extra step just to sign on? This subject comes up from time to time here,a post like this is a good idea,just to remind us all from time to time.

[izzybell2810]

I agree with loudthud that you can judge someones technial know how by the way they ask a question. I also agree that it's a good idea to have some sort of log on disclaimer.

Here's a thought: we're all concerned for everyones safety! How many persons are there out there that never even register. They just do a search, find an answer that matches their problem and dive right in! Have a look now at the members to guests ratio.

\perhaps it would be a better idea that every post carries a disclaimer!

[billyz]

I think you can usually tell if a person has any experience and knowledge. The internet has opened the floodgates though. I don't mind trying to help someone if they are new, as long as they are respectful and want to learn. It's the ones who think they know but don't, who get to me and I just stop trying to put them in the right direction. I find they lose interest and go away.

[bnwitt]

Here's a thought: we're all concerned for everyones safety! How many persons are there out there that never even register. They just do a search, find an answer that matches their problem and dive right in! Have a look now at the members to guests ratio.

\perhaps it would be a better idea that every post carries a disclaimer!

Well I don't know how to look at the member to guest ratio but if you look at the members list it is astonishing how many single and double post members there are. Pages and pages pages of them. As you can now see in my posts there is a warning signature. I'll tweak it later to hold me harmless too.

[izzybell2810]

If you go to the home page and scroll to the bottom of the page, it tells you who's on line and also how many guests are on line. As I type there are 24 members and 105 guests!

Dave.