newer tube/SS amps - any techs not wanting to fix them?

[PRNDL]

I'm wondering if any other techs are getting annoyed with the newer amps - the ones that have circuit boards and lots of solid state parts.

I've been working on an old ADA Microtube (tube preamp with MOSFET power). After much work, I located the switching power supply as the main problem, but getting that board out will take a lot of work & time, and it looks like there's something seriously wrong.

Today, someone called with a Vox Valvetronix modeling amp that doesn't work. I'm willing to look for something simple (maybe a bad preamp tube or loose wire).

I'm wondering what you're strategy is concerning these amps.

[Gtr_tech]

The newer style SS Randall's (RG75,100,200,etc) are the pits to work on. I don't *want* to work on them, but someone's gotta do it.

[Amp Kat]

They take time and time is money. There are shortcuts like half flipping the board over to get to just what you need and I've seen resistors and caps clipped and inserted on the standing leads. Gotta do what your time and money allows with also being honest to your customer. Just think in the near future when SMT takes over and many of the newer amps and DSP circuits are SMT. It's getting where it's cheaper to replace the board then fix it.

[Chuck H]

It's getting where it's cheaper to replace the board then fix it.

This, I agree and fear, is the way it's all going to go. Even our beloved tube amps will be disposable items like VCR's and alarm clocks. Right now SOME of the amps you will see won't be worth the difficulty of the repair in $$$. Eventually ALOT of tube amps will be built with the fastest cheapest methods and parts. It will be chaper for MFG's to simply replace an amp than repair it. Removing the human element is the best way to improve profit. Labor is always more expensive that parts. Even in China. With processing and shipping back and forth and phone time and paper etc... Send 'em another amp...Done. The only way to do this is to cull the secondary workforce. That's us. And any "service centers" that old school companies once maintained when quality products got repaired instead of the big box mentality of cheaper products getting replaced. And it's all about the big box. Just the way you see there are no more Hany Man hardware stores there will be fewer and fewer solidly built amps. Unfortunately some of them will end up on our benches for "repair" because even though they are true pieces of crap compared to the amps of yester-year, it's all the $$$ that kid had to spend. So he loves his amp. It's a tube amp. And to him/her that's the mark of quality. Because they don't know any better.

Between Loud and KORG I just don't see it going any other possible way. You can buy a 50 watt all tube amp from Guitar Center made by Loud Technologies for dirt. Blackheart or Crate I think. The bitch of it is, they're said to sound pretty good. Peavey, Crate, Blackheart and probably alot of KORG's stuff is made in the same factory in China. Fender, seeing the change in the Chinese economy, continues to build and fortify their factory in Mexico. Every one says they want quality but what they're willing to pay for is $h!t. Ask anyone what they want for lunch and they'll answer "steak". Ask them what they ATE for lunch and they'll say "a hamburger".

I want the niche amp markets to survive, really. I just don't see it's possible for it to thrive in this environment. Which means fewer innovations in quality product for tube amps. And that means more innovations in CHEAPER products... Until that's all we're left with as currently available goods.

Sorry for the rant.

Chuck

[PRNDL]

I'm relieved in some way that others have similar issues with these amps.

One obvious feature has been missed -- a replaceable part that degrades with use.
Examples of this strategy are mops and dusters (Swiffer).

Tubes need to be replaced fairly frequently, especially when compared with transistors.

[Euthymia]

One of the best benefits of owning my own amp repair shop is that I don't have to work on anything I don't want to.

I think some techs feel like they have to at least try to fix everything that shows up at the door, but that ain't me.

It's hard not to be on a macho trip and say that I can fix anything, but I have a business to keep afloat, and it can't stay afloat if the owner spends all day getting nowhere soldering and desoldering IRFP9240's in and out in the same amount of time he could have fixed half a dozen Twin Reverbs.

There are repair places that are happy to help someone with their whatever-company-owns-the-Ampeg-brand-this-week MOSFET bass amp. They are called "factory authorized service centers."

Me, I'll fix your solid-state Sunn, Acoustic, Kustom....

[hasserl]

Because I do so much work on Carvin amps, and have been active on Carvin's bbs, I get a lot of emails asking me if I'll repair someone's Carvin amp because their local amp tech doesn't want to. WTF?????? They tell them they're hard to work on, can't get schematics, can't get parts. That's crap. These amps are easy towork on, schem's are easily available and the amps are actualy rather well built. Parts for non-current amps can be a problem, Carvin doesn't maintain parts inventory for non-current amps, so once they run out of parts that's it and there aint no more. But for all current amps you can get anything from Carvin, and the prices are reasonable. SOmetimes dealing with the folks on the phone is bothersome, it's odd when you know their products better than they do and you have to tell them how it works. But the actual work is cake, the boards come out in about 5 minutes, no problem. I find it hard to believe that techs will pick and choose what they'll work on, and that they send these Carvin owners away instead of taking the job. Don't pass it up guys, it's good work

[Euthymia]

Because I do so much work on Carvin amps, and have been active on Carvin's bbs, I get a lot of emails asking me if I'll repair someone's Carvin amp because their local amp tech doesn't want to. WTF?????? They tell them they're hard to work on, can't get schematics, can't get parts. That's crap.

Thing is, hass, not all Carvin amps are created equal. There was one solid state bass head I had in years ago that had literally smoked the output board.

I got it working by replacing some of the output transistors and a driver transistor, gave it back to the owner, and it came back in a week even more charred.

I phoned Carvin, and they sent a schematic for the preamp section only, saying that they would continue to search for the power amp schematic. I did this dance a couple of times with the same result. This was back in 2006, and so far they have not found the schematic for that power amp.

So if anyone showed up at my door with one of those bass heads, I would send them away. Feel free to PM me with your contact info.

Most other models of Carvin are just fine with me. I have a local following of X100 lovers who buy busted ones and bring them to me for the customary overhaul of the +/-15V power supply.

I pick and choose what I work on because I can. It's one of the aspects of my business model that keeps me happy about doing it.

I have a list of amp models I will not touch. It does not include all amps from any particular manufacturer. Carvin's line, like most, is diverse. But I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't want to work on any given amp. More business for me if someone doesn't touch Music Man amps (which I've heard, believe it or not) or any solid state or whatever.

[Enzo]

I know guys who turn away the kid with a Crate GX15 practice amp.."I only work on tube amps, man" One day that kid will have a real amp, and need some service. He will remember who treated him well and who didn;t. Not pointing fingers at anyone. I just think you never know who your next lifelong customer will be. Me personally, I can;t think of anything more boring than a steady stream of old Fenders. I like the amps just fine, but I prefer variety. I like the challenge of new things. I like the challenge of serving the customers. I can fix his old Fender amp. I can also fix his Conn Strobe tuner.

Then ther are PV solid state amps. I can crank those out a mile a minute. Give me A blown XR600. We'll be having lunch soon enough.

My list?

I don;t work on Fender Rhodes pianos. Nor those Wurlitzer 200s. I just don;t want those big clumsy things in my shop. ANyone who gigs with one ought to know how to maintain it himself anyway. Bring me the amp chassis out of one, and I will work on that though.

I am about one amp away from not working on Marshall Mode4 amps though.

[Euthymia]

I know guys who turn away the kid with a Crate GX15 practice amp.."I only work on tube amps, man" One day that kid will have a real amp, and need some service. He will remember who treated him well and who didn't.

Do you not have a minimum charge?

If a youngster called me about a GX15, I wouldn't work on it, but it would be because I would explain to him that he could buy a replacement on Craig's List or Music Go Round for my minimum fee of $50.

There are polite ways to decline business and rude ways. I've had people get back in touch after I told them that repairing an amp was not financially advisable. They appreciated my honesty rather than taking the work and charging them more than the piece was worth.

When someone calls me up with a busted SVT3 Pro, I do not blame the amp, I just say that I've tried fixing them in the past I can't get them to work.

The last one I ever touched was a few years ago; with advice from you, R.G. Keen, and others, I never did get it to power up without immediately slamming to a rail when I applied a load.

In this brief dance upon the stage of life, there are some steps I shall never master. And that's okay.

I am about one amp away from not working on Marshall Mode4 amps though.

Man, after reading that recent thread, I added that model to my no-try list without ever even seeing one!

I'll rock the Valvestates all day long, though.

[Enzo]

Valvestates are easy. Valvetronix are spawn of satan.


Sure I have a minimum charge. But I can;t see charging $60 for soldering a wire back on a microphone connector. I don;t see bench charges as cut in stone. if I had more work than I could do and needed to turn things away, maybe, but when I see a small practice amp - and I think we can all agree they are all pretty much the same inside - it is going to have a bad 2040 IC, or a broken control or jack, or maybe a bad op amp IC. If I can't have that fixed in 15 minutes, there is something wrong with me. SO I ask myself, do I want his $30 or not? Will he be happy or not? I remain flexible.

I see it as building a loyal customer base.

I often tell people I can;t fix something within its value. Not afraid to do that. I also tell people that I won;t fix it and put my name on the work, since I don;t think I can make whatever it is reliable.

I know a guy who refuses to get into any factory authorized agreements. He feels that if they don;t pay his full bench rate, he'd have to charge the customer the difference. If he wants $50 an hour and some factory pays $45, that is a deal breaker for him. I ask him what it costs to get a new customer. What does that yellow pages ad cost a month (I dropped mine)? What does it take to get someone new into your shop? Now look at Marshall sending someone you never seen before into your shop with a warranty claim to fulfill. How many times have I heard, "Oh cool, now that I know you are here, I have a bunch of stuff to get fixed, and the guys in the band do too." Isn;t that worth getting $10 less on the one repair? I think he's nuts, but its his deal, not mine.

[Gtr_tech]

Word.....

The kid with the Crate g-15 whatever will tell other ppl about the great service he got and how the fix-it guy wasn't a dick. It tends to snowball from there. Word of mouth advertising is better than actual print advertising 9 times outta 10.

Oh....and I got suckered into working on a Wurli 200 the other day but he's a longtime regular so I'll bite the bullet. Dammit...reminds me...I gotta get sticky hammers ordered for that damn pianet......

[Euthymia]

Valvestates are easy. Valvetronix are spawn of satan.

Those Vox things, right? There's some Vox solid state + token 12AX7 combo that this guy has brought back to me time after time; I fix it, he plays through it in my shop and it sounds fine, then 2 weeks later like clockwork, he's back on the phone.

The first issue was he sat on the top of it and broke the input board, then the effects loop jacks went intermittent....I finally told him to take it to my friend Val who is Vox factory authorized service center.

It's very unusual that I run across an amp that does not eventually succumb to my wiles. I am very tenacious, which is why I have to keep the playing-Jenga-with-ice-cubes amps away from me.

I'm surprised/impressed by you having bad things to say about any amp, Enzo. I guess Marshall just kept at it until they pissed off even you.

[Enzo]

Oh there is a lot of stuff I don;t like, but that doesn't mean I can;t fix it or provide insight to someone trying to fix one.

I called the Marshall guy at Korg in New York once to ask if I was missing something when Mode 4 amps keep blowing up. he told me: No, that's just the way they are. That's why they quit making them.

The Valvetronix series is the Vox DSP/Modelling/kitchen sink monstrosity. Got all the bells and whistles like tap tempo. If you think a PV C30 is inconvenient to work on, these things are a nightmare.

[Enzo]

Gtr - when I left Marshall Music 15 years ago, they had a drawer full of Wurlitzer action parts, hammers, and tines. In fact I have a few sets of tines myself. I doubt they have used many since, in the 8 years I ran that shop we used maybe two or three action parts or hammers. Tines a lot, but not the other stuff.

Also had a huge bag of yellow rubber hammer tips for Clavinet or something.

Might check with their tech if you need something like that.

Of course the asshole nazi prick of a boss over there could just as easily have come in and thrown all that stuff away. The coward would have done it while no one was around, of course.