cnc winder controller board

[-Elepro-]

pickup winding mode


wind direction

with buttons 4 & 5 select wind direction
with button 3 confirm and skip to turns setting
with button 2 return to operating mode selection

turns setting

with buttons 4 & 5 select turns value with +1 or -1 steps
with buttons 6 & 7 select turns value with +100 or -100 steps
with button 3 confirm and skip to automatic height bobbin measuring (traverse movement between switches.... controller needs for TPL calculating)
with button 2 return to operating mode selection

height measuring

controller perform a measuring of traverse movement between limit switches and show value... you can:

with button 1 restart measuring
with buttons 4 & 5 move traverse.... useful if you want adjust limit switch position
with button 3 confirm and skip to traverse mode selection
with button 2 return to operating mode selection

traverse mode

there are 3 mode for traverse movement:

single pitch: enter a pitch for all layers in your pickup

alternate pitch: you can enter from 2 to 10 pitch values and traverse rotate them in pickup winding layers

random pitch: you enter min and max values.... traverse rotate random values between min and max

with buttons 4 & 5 select mode
with button 3 confirm
with button 2 return to operating mode selection

[-Elepro-]

if you select single pitch

with buttons 4 & 5 select pitch value with +1 or -1 steps
with buttons 6 & 7 select pitch value with +10 or -10 steps
with button 3 confirm and skip to tensioner setting
with button 2 return to operating mode selection

______________________________________________________

if you select alternate pitch

enter number of pitch values you want rotate in layers

with buttons 4 & 5 select number of values +1 or -1 steps
with button 3 confirm and skip to pitch values setting
with button 2 return to operating mode selection

pitch values setting

select values like in "single pitch" but for n times

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if you select random pitch


select values like in "single pitch" but for min and max

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[-Elepro-]

tensioner value

display show default value

with buttons 4 & 5 modify tensioner value with +1 or -1 steps
with buttons 6 & 7 modify tensioner value with +100 or -100 steps
with button 3 confirm and skip to speed setting
with button 1 power on/off tensioner (useful for test)
with button 2 return to operating mode selection

speed value

display show default speed

with buttons 6 & 7 modify speed value with +200 or -200 steps
with button 3 confirm and skip to "ready to start"
with button 2 return to operating mode selection

ready to start.... and run

with buttons 1 start-pause winding (go or stop with ac-deceleration)
with button 2 emergency stop winding (without deceleration) and if you push again return to operating mode selection

during winding display show turns - tpl and tensioner value.....

[David Schwab]

I can't wait until this is all figured out so I can start buying parts!

Glad I didn't start on my new winder yet.

[RedHouse]

Elepro,

A helpful tip to avoid confusion (ours) regarding the term "Height Adjustment" and "Height Measuring".

It would be better named "Traverse Width" and "Traverse Measuring" because we are speaking of the traverse's traveling dimension rather than the fixed dimension of the bobbin. In practice a winder often sets the traverse end-guards (end guides?) narrower than the bobbin because the wire pushes out toward the edges by nature during winding, so we're really not adjusting bobbin height or measuring bobbin height but traverse the user desires to span you see?.

Also I see there is no absolute turns-count method. We are counting steps we tell the motor to turn and doing some math. Myself and I'm sure others here would prefer to know absolute turns the bobbin made when winding. Using an optic or other sensor on the bobbin holder or shaft. The problem I can forsee is not having a absolute count is that when we add a pulley system to raise the RPM then we are at the mercy of having exactly matching pulleys and zero belt slip/stretch. After 5000 turns or more error can add up.

It should be better to consider implementing in your microcontroller to sense feedback from the bobbin holder or shaft by a sensor giving actual turns count back to your PIC then any mis-match in shaft/linkage/construction would be accounted for and automatically zero'd out.
(I have implemented these sensors before: Winder v2.0)

[David King]

Elepro,

Also I see there is no absolute turns-count method. We are counting steps we tell the motor to turn and doing some math. Myself and I'm sure others here would prefer to know absolute turns the bobbin made when winding. Using an optic or other sensor on the bobbin holder or shaft. The problem I can forsee is not having a absolute count is that when we add a pulley system to raise the RPM then we are at the mercy of having exactly matching pulleys and zero belt slip/stretch. After 5000 turns or more error can add up.

If we use the cogged pulleys and belts with proper tension there will be no lost turns.

[-Elepro-]

Elepro,

A helpful tip to avoid confusion (ours) regarding the term "Height Adjustment" and "Height Measuring".

It would be better named "Traverse Width" and "Traverse Measuring" because we are speaking of the traverse's traveling dimension rather than the fixed dimension of the bobbin.

yes you right.... these name are better...... but

In practice a winder often sets the traverse end-guards (end guides?) narrower than the bobbin because the wire pushes out toward the edges by nature during winding, so we're really not adjusting bobbin height or measuring bobbin height but traverse the user desires to span you see?.

yes... with hands... but with automatic traverse you can set limit switches position perfectly to have traverse travel = height bobbin and wire go always inside flatworks....

Also I see there is no absolute turns-count method. We are counting steps we tell the motor to turn and doing some math. Myself and I'm sure others here would prefer to know absolute turns the bobbin made when winding. Using an optic or other sensor on the bobbin holder or shaft. The problem I can forsee is not having a absolute count is that when we add a pulley system to raise the RPM then we are at the mercy of having exactly matching pulleys and zero belt slip/stretch. After 5000 turns or more error can add up.

It should be better to consider implementing in your microcontroller to sense feedback from the bobbin holder or shaft by a sensor giving actual turns count back to your PIC then any mis-match in shaft/linkage/construction would be accounted for and automatically zero'd out.
(I have implemented these sensors before: Winder v2.0)

turns shown are always perfect... no errors...you can start-pause-restart-pause as you want and turns shown are always right.... and when you arrive at last turn faceplate stops with perfect same angulation of start.... we are speaking of pulley and belt with teeth.... no slip or stretch

you can have small error (fraction of turn) only if you use emergency stop, because stepper break system can't stop immediately the motor inertia ....

about stepper and feedback system (closed loop): my cnc milling machine make a complete body or a neck without any kind of feedback..... then really doesn't need for a winder...

[StarryNight]

heck, I'd also be interested in building a winder based on this design. These builds have inspired me to further my next-to-zero understanding of PCB design. You guys rawk...

[peskywinnets]

yes... with hands... but with automatic traverse you can set limit switches position perfectly to have traverse travel = height bobbin and wire go always inside flatworks....

I think you mean width of the bobbin where I've bolded.

I've followed this thread with interest, as I'm actually presently still developing my own CNC winder - honing the traversal calculations aspect of it tonight as it goes! (don't worry Elepro...I'm not going to be competing with you - mine uses a CNC host - Mach 3!).

For those who haven't dabbled - there is much much more to the 'input parameters' than you'd initially imagine - & yes, with CNC winders, you can set the limit switches so the wire always stays inside the bobbin edges...but you'll end up with wire 'banked' at each end of the bobbin...so you need to set the left & right traverse 'extremeties' shorter than the total available winding width of the bobbin (I don't use switches - my program automatically takes account of this - for example, let's say a bobbin has 10mm of potential bobbin winding width. If you try to get your CNC winder to use the full 10mm it'll be uneven, so the winder should only use say 9.6mm (obviously these aren't real world figures...it would depend on wire gauge - I'm just trying to illustrate a point).

So for a seemingly simple input parameter as 'bobbin width', assuming limit switches aren't in use, you either have to ...

1 To manually inputa 'trimmed' bobbin width, taking a stab at what you think will end in a neat wind (trial & error).

2. Have your CNC winder program atomatically make this calculation for you 'behind the scenes' so to speak. (which still needs trial & error, but at least one you've honed it, it saves a little bit of calculating)


Then there's wire size - the widths quoted when you buy wire, doesn't inculde the enamel coating ...so I normally add about 10% on. This is quite a key paramater, as obviously over several thousand winds, the margin for error is big!


& on it goes...I'm sure Elepro has it all covered, but I'm now on my third CNC winder build (first was a pic driven CNC winder, my second was 'Mach3 hosted' using someone else's winding program....albeit needing some debugging by me.. this 3rd build is my own effort!).

I happen to enjoy the challenge, but trust me...this is all brainache & deeply time consuming - so far better to let Elepro do the legwork for you & chuck him some sheckles for his effort! Just realise that the end product will still need a fair amount of initial trial & error for your own winding needs.

[RedHouse]

...For those who haven't dabbled - there is much much more to the 'input parameters' than you'd initially imagine...

Yes, Elepro is also kindling my spirit too. I'm fairly experienced in C, C++, C#, VB, and VBScript so I'm familiar with programming methods. I have pondered having a look at PIC programming but spare time is not this time.
(I also have 4 years in UI testing that is why I tend to suggest usability things)

[David King]

I really like the manually adjusted limit switches. It's intuitive and we are all used to pushing our goal-post thingies around to get the bobbins filled correctly.

[-Elepro-]

just arrived.... with a spare belt too

pulley 10 teeth 0.2"pitch
pulley 20 teeth 0.2"pitch
belts 110xl (11" lenght 0.2"pitch 55 teeth)

distance between center of pulleys will be 100mm...

[David Schwab]

I really like the manually adjusted limit switches. It's intuitive and we are all used to pushing our goal-post thingies around to get the bobbins filled correctly.

Me too.

[RedHouse]

I really like the manually adjusted limit switches. It's intuitive and we are all used to pushing our goal-post thingies around to get the bobbins filled correctly.

Me three

[RedHouse]

just arrived.... with a spare belt too

pulley 10 teeth 0.2"pitch
pulley 20 teeth 0.2"pitch
belts 110xl (11" lenght 0.2"pitch 55 teeth)

distance between center of pulleys will be 100mm...

Would those pulleys fit the stepper motors you recommended in post #138 ? I ask that because I ordered a couple of those Lin Engineering 4218L-01-11 bipolar stepper motors.

If yes, where did you source those?.