Threaded magnets

[David King]

I guess that all depends on whether Telenator get a patent in the first place. If the do then will they have the ability to defend it against hundreds of pop and grandma operations eating away at the fringes? The patent needs to be broad to stop everyone and the broad patent may be 50 years too late. There is hardly enough $$ in pickups to pay a lawyer to send out "cease and desist" letters let alone taking folks to court.

[Possum]

...

You know these theaded magnets are awfully skinny and the 10-24 one is awfully short. I wonder how long they would hold their charge. Skinny magnets aren't going to give much window space for the strings, these things are probably really bright.

I don't see how anyone could patent a threaded magnet, someone should send in counter arguments. All they are doing is threading an existing material, its not a unique process, does this mean they will also own all threaded magnetic cores? If anyone could pass through a patent it would be for the PROCESS of threading alnico, not the USES of these things. I don't see much market for these anyway, the WR buckers are a novelty vintage collectible, honestly I had a Tele Deluxe in '72 and that humbucker was pretty much useless for anything in my opinion, they didn't sell well either.

[Peter Naglitsch]

OK, telenator: I have been in contact with him after finding he has threads ALL OVER the internet about his prior attemt to do a resonable upgrade for Fender Wide Range HB. Resently he aslo posts everywere about he's new threaded magnets upgrades. So he has two solutions, threaded an unthreaded magnets. I contacted him to see if he were willing to expand to Europe (through me, I would be the contact person over here doing the work, buying kits from him) but he claimes that is wasn't possible due to that the magnets wasn't RoHS complienat, which is a pretty lame excuse. They are AlNiCo magnets and it is perfectly in complience with RoHS to import that to Europe. He simply doesn't want to have anyone else have a pice of the cake. Wich is perfectly OK, but SAY SO. And now I can get similar (if not the same) magnets from China...

Second, the original Fender WRHBs had magnets that was metric with 5mm diameter. That is 0.1969", pretty darn close to those 10-32 magnets according to this:
ANSI Screw and Nut Threads Size Chart - Engineers Edge
And traditional Fender Strat pickup magnets are roughly the same diameter and .65" long, meaning that there are no significant difference in size and mass between those threded magnets (the bigger once) and standard Strat magnets. So I don't se the problem with them not holding their charge.

Lately there have been some I-net hype about the original WRHB and the new ones that really sucks. I started investigating this some days ago when a customer came to me and asking for me to rebuild his reissue WRHBs. I have ordered magnets from Sensmags and will report back about the result of switching the threaded polepieces/bar magnets combo for true magnet poles

[David Schwab]

Yeah, the only thing he could patent is a method for putting threads on the magnets. He can't patent adjustable pole pieces.

If he does try to patent threaded magnets as adjustable pole pieces, there is prior art with the WRHBs, and all he could do is show that his method is an improvement and is a novel approach.

But I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even play one on TV, but I do read an awful lot of patents.

[Spence]

Surely they have to be sintered alnico done in a mould.

[David King]

They could be sintered in a mold but those from the Sensmag email look ground to me. I wonder why they are short?

Threads of 10-32 have a nominal outside diameter of .188 or 3/16", the same as truss rods. 5mm is significantly larger and more powerful as a result. Also removing the portion for the threads and the slot in the top leaves a lot less magnet (maybe 20% less) and the slot probably messes with the flux lines on the top.

[jason lollar]

I have been making pickups that retrofit into the wide range reissues that sound very close to the originals for years but I havent advertised it. I make all new bobbins that are size to specs of the old pickups which is a big difference from the new guy. I have tried to get threaded cuniffe for years now and had alerted my main magnet supplier to this- well he called me a month or so ago telling me about these new threaded magnets.
apparently it is not really alnico but it is a close equivalent. It is machined first and then hardened afterwards- the way its hardend has to do with how it holds a magnetic charge.
I have a few thousand magnets on order and am gearing up to make a complete reproduction- I have all the R+D done and am just waiting on some of the metal parts that require stamps made.
thats what i know about it.

[LtKojak]

I have a few thousand magnets on order and am gearing up to make a complete reproduction- I have all the R+D done and am just waiting on some of the metal parts that require stamps made.
thats what i know about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to specially route your guitar to install those p'ups?

Then, even though they were great sounding p'ups, they didn't catch on in the aftermarket p'up crowd because of that... what did it change today to make you think they'll fly?

I don't mean to be negative, Jason, don't get me wrong. I'm just curious!

Care to share your thoughts?

[jason lollar]

why would you make them? Fender reissued those deluxes and customs for the last 10 years or so- there are thousands of them in players hands so i have been getting requests for years.
as far as routing guitars, I have several pickup designs I made that people have routed thier guitars for- its amazing how many of these odd pickups I have made for people where they have to modify thier guitars to accept them- amazing actually!

[Alabam]

Ok i made one of these threaded Alnico magnets today, check it out------
Look closely, its only a slug superglued into a short piece of extension spring, now where can i find threader to match the spring grooves.

[David Schwab]

Ok i made one of these threaded Alnico magnets today, check it out------
Look closely, its only a slug superglued into a short piece of extension spring, now where can i find threader to match the spring grooves.

You can get little helix threaded spring type things that slip over non threaded rods and work with standard threads.

I'm sure someone here more familiar with machining would know what they are called.

I thought about that as this thread (no pun intended) was going on, and wondered why no one had thought of doing that.

Personally I see no need for adjustable pole pieces, but I guess people like them.

[David King]

If you are just inserting them into something soft like plastic or forbon you wouldn't need to thread the bobbin very precisely if at all. Just keep in mind that taps only come in a few thread pitches per diameter at the hardware store. For our purposes 10-32 and 10-24 are about it but a spring over a .188" magnet will yield something very oddball. With some luck it might conform to 12-32 but you will need to get tension springs (or thread restore inserts as David mentioned above) that have a wire dia of .031" dia to end up with 32tpi (threads per inch) A custom spring maker will do these for you but in small quantities they will cost $6 ea. The thread restore inserts aren't cheap either iirc but they are standard thread pitches.

Keep in mind that spring steel will inevitably alter the sound of the magnets too...

The main problem with this business is that the polepieces can't touch the magnet wire or they will strip the insulation when you try to turn them and you will have a short. You basically have to use a cast or machined bobbin to wind on and that limits you a lot.

[Possum]

...

I was under the impression that the WR humbuckers were much larger frame size than regular humbuckers, aren't the reissues standard humbucker size?

Also I goofed I thought someone said the threaded ones were 6-32 not 10-32 big difference there. Still it amazes me there is much interest in the WR's have any of you ever played those things? They are weak and hifi sounding if I remember right back to '72 which mine was. I think if there are accurate copies made and kids put them in their copy guitars they aren't going to like them much. I personally would prefer a stock tele neck pickup to those things.

If anyone knows what those sleeve insert things are called I'd be interested in that, DeArmond made plastic sleeves for big fat rod magnets and those were good pickups, way better than the WR's.

[Peter Naglitsch]

The WRHB reissues have the same cover size as the originals (much bigger than standard HBs), but inside they are standard "PAF" sized bobbins with threaded slugs and a standard bar magnet. The original bobbins were wider and shorter. The original magnets were 5mm threaded Cunife with a 0.9 mm thread. The magnets offered from Sensmag, 10-32, are slightly thinner but available in Alnico2. According to information found on the internet A2 is 16% stronger than Cunife. Therefore I *think* (still waiting for them to arrive) that the slightly smaller A2 threaded magnets will produce a magnetic strength very similar to the original Cunife magnets.

I think that changing from the steel-slug-and-bar construction to threaded magnets and a proper rewind with the original reissued bobbins will get those pickups into ballpark sound wise. If not there is always the possibility to make new bobbins that is vintage correct.

We might like the sound of the WRHBs or not but there have been some hype about those pickups lately. For me the interest in those pickup started as I got customer requests to "do something" with those reissues, and with "do something" they generally mean to get them to sound as the original pickups.

[jonson]

Back about 150 years when I was a strippling, these buggers got me out of several stripped sparkplug situations. Helicoil inserts was the name UK side.