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PJ bass wiring problem

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  • #16
    You are thinking strings.... it's only one coil. Half the coil will be out of phase with itself. Try it out and see.
    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


    http://coneyislandguitars.com
    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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    • #17
      Originally posted by David Schwab View Post

      Also since the P is wound hotter than the J....
      I've got two questions:
      1. would this same delema occur in a guitar with a s/s/h configuration assuming there is a switch to activate both neck and bridge pickups? I never thought about it before but I guess one coil of the humbucker would be out of phase with the single coil.

      2. why is the P on a P/J bass wound hotter than the J? The whole reason this guy wanted a new pickup was the P was wound too hot, it sounded muddy and it over powered the J. Just like a guitar, the strings vibrate less closer to the bridge so wouldn't it make sense to wind the J hotter or at least even with the P?

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      • #18
        Starry night,
        P pickups are probably hotter just because they have more turns (traditionally) than Js, i.e. 10000 turns or so for each P coil vs 8500 or so for a typical J. The magnet strength is also an issue. The J's gauss might have got knocked down (if they are alnico magnets) or the pickups might have been tossed together unthinkingly by Fender in a rush to get a new or cheaper product out the door.
        Most of the ceramic and steel pickups were much hotter than their equivalent A-5 loaded pickups.

        Typically the rear J pickup will need to be closer up under the strings to balance anyway so if the pickups were set the same distance then the bridge can't compete for the string excursion reasons you stated above.
        I'd just lower the P until I get a good balance if possible. That usually helps the sound too.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by StarryNight View Post
          I've got two questions:
          1. would this same delema occur in a guitar with a s/s/h configuration assuming there is a switch to activate both neck and bridge pickups? I never thought about it before but I guess one coil of the humbucker would be out of phase with the single coil.
          What cancels noise, is noise. The humnbucker is presenting a composite signal of both coils in phase with each other in regards to the strings. It's not "seen" as two coils to another single coil, one in and one out of phase, just as one in phase pickup. There is no hum in the HB signal, so it wont hum cancel with another single coil. But you might hear less hum because of the signal to noise ratio with both pickups on.

          If you split the humbucker, and you use a coil with the opposite magnetic polarity and the right electrical phase, it will hum cancel to a degree.

          2. why is the P on a P/J bass wound hotter than the J? The whole reason this guy wanted a new pickup was the P was wound too hot, it sounded muddy and it over powered the J. Just like a guitar, the strings vibrate less closer to the bridge so wouldn't it make sense to wind the J hotter or at least even with the P?
          With the first P/J basses they just stuck on a stock P and J pickup. The J adds some highs to the tone, and of course you can solo them and have your usual P and J tones. Even the P/J basses I've seen with Barts, the P is much louder.

          I guess the problem is if you under wind the P, or over wind the J, you change the tone. But if you do each to a smaller extent, they should balance pretty well. Even on a stock Jazz bass, the bridge pickup is often weak compared to the neck.

          I had a P/J with DiMarzio pickups, and that was quite usable, but the J was still not as loud. One way around that is to put the P in parallel.
          It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


          http://coneyislandguitars.com
          www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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          • #20
            Whats the standard winds on the P bass pickups .. I thought I read somewhere that it is like 10K per coil of 42? If they are in series thats a 20K passive pickup.. YOWZERS.

            I know nothing about these pickups but im learning about them now.

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            • #21
              10 and 20K turns or ohms DCR? there's a big difference with such a small coil.

              I think of the first commercially successful PJ bass as the Guild Pilot bass from the mid 1980s. It came loaded with active EMGs for a time. Were there others before then?
              Last edited by David King; 08-26-2009, 05:20 PM.

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              • #22
                Someone told me 10000 turns per coil x 2, which would give a dc res of about 14.4-15k

                I dont know what I was thinking there about the 20k.. I guess I just had a brain fart.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by belwar View Post
                  Whats the standard winds on the P bass pickups .. I thought I read somewhere that it is like 10K per coil of 42? If they are in series thats a 20K passive pickup.. YOWZERS.

                  I know nothing about these pickups but im learning about them now.
                  It's 10,000 turns per coil, but not 10 Kilohms per coil. The whole pickup is about 11.6 k.

                  Now on the other hand, the Gibson sidewinder (a.k.a. mudbucker) is about 20K!
                  It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                  http://coneyislandguitars.com
                  www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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                  • #24
                    Hi all...new guy here
                    Had the same prob with my hobby bass...DiMarzio p (real hot) and an unknown j .had them wired with a blend pot that worked great for individual pups but the volume would cut drastically when both on .... I decided to go with the v v t wiring which lead to the same thing.... thanks for this post because it gave me reassurance that the j was wired out of phase. white wire and a red wire with a bare shielding for noise. turns out the red was hot not the white . problem solved. as for the balance issue I brought the j as high as possible and the p down to suit. great tone from this gem... ( an El Degas originally).
                    the whole pickguard has shield tape which really helps with the "buzz" factor
                    once again... thanks for the post
                    Last edited by TJBass64; 07-26-2012, 02:34 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Welcome TJB!
                      When you got the phase straightened out was there still some hum with the VVs all the way up?

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                      • #26
                        Anyone know how many turns per coil in a split coil Jazz? and what gauge is normally used? Nordstand use 42 and 43 it seems.

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                        • #27
                          Kesh, I'm going to say that the turns count will be the same as in a single coil i.e. around 8500 or so. Where it gets tricky is when you have coils of uneven length on a 5 string bass.

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                          • #28
                            I'm only planning on a 4 string luckily.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by David King View Post
                              Where it gets tricky is when you have coils of uneven length on a 5 string bass.
                              You can wind them with the same number of turns, which hum cancels just fine, but then they sound a little different from each other.

                              I haven't trid to find a way to fix that yet.
                              It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                              http://coneyislandguitars.com
                              www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                use a 6 string pickup with a dummy magnet?

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