PAF parts

[David Schwab]

Maybe Seth Lover overlooked this possibility.

Seth Lover didn't want screws! So he wouldn't have needed the keeper since the slugs are larger in diameter.

He had to work with what Gibson agreed to.

Here was one of his prototypes where he stamped dimples on the cover to look like exposed poles, hoping Gibson would buy that and not want the adjustable poles.

[Possum]

....

Its about the same deal with P90s, I make one without a keeper, it does have an effect. Well the original PAF didn't have keepers at all, just a magnet butting against two rows of slugs, I'm betting the keeper was also added so they didn't have to have custom magnets made, knowing Gibson money conscioussness. I've seen alot of Gibson keepers that were made the same way I make them, pretty much by hand and cheap machines...you can identify them by diagonal sanding on one or even all surfaces....

[Spence]

Getting back to the keeper, I had a chance to inspect and install a set of WCR humbuckers. Guess what folks, no keeper. The magnet is wider and makes closer contact with the screws and supports the bobbin. Humm, one less part to worry about. Maybe Seth Lover overlooked this possibility.

I have seen Jim's extra wide magnet and no keeper. Seth lover didn't overlook anything and if you want to recreate PAFs or P90s you would have to use a keeper. Also for most people who don't have the clout to have their own magnets made the standard fare is the only way to go.

[belwar]

Here's another image of the original..

[Sam Lee Guy]

Looky here for plototype pickup

1955 Gibson ES-350 with Prototype Seth Lover Pickups > Guitars : Electric Semi-Hollow Body | Gbase.com

Sam see this guitar and pickup and black lings hand made from celuloid - original cover black plastic with four hole for screw into body like P90, but no hole in baseplate - mystery!

[kevinT]

Getting back to the keeper, I had a chance to inspect and install a set of WCR humbuckers. Guess what folks, no keeper. The magnet is wider and makes closer contact with the screws and supports the bobbin. Humm, one less part to worry about. Maybe Seth Lover overlooked this possibility.

What WCR models do you have? Because I've seen a set of his compared to another pickup maker's set and they don't sound much different. I know the other maker uses a spacer.

[David Schwab]

Looky here for plototype pickup...

Wow!

[Down Time]

What WCR models do you have? Because I've seen a set of his compared to another pickup maker's set and they don't sound much different. I know the other maker uses a spacer.

I have installed the WCR Crossroads, Fillmore Set and Darkburst set. My favorite is a Crossroads neck with a Darkburst bridge. I thinks this was called a Combo Set. I have purchased some of the magnets from Jim and did some experimenting. WCR mostly uses poly wire, I have wound up a few pickups using 42 plain enamel with WCR A2 magnets, pretty nice. I think the magnet being a little closer to the adjusting screws is a good thing. One of my customers wanted a loud and clear sounding set of humbuckers. I used WCR's A5 magnets with 42 plain enamel (old American Wire CO. 42 enamel) wound 5200 per coil neck and 5500 per coil bridge. It was a nice clear focused sounding set of pickups. The bridge pickup sounded like a fat smooth Telecaster bridge pickup. The neck pickup had a clear smooth high end with tight low's. They were installed in a 1998 Les Paul Historic flame top.

[David Schwab]

I think the magnet being a little closer to the adjusting screws is a good thing.

As far as the magnetic field, having the magnet touching the keeper is as good as the magnet touching the screws. And it might even give more even field around them. The keeper will change the inductance a bit though.

[Spence]

Looky here for plototype pickup

1955 Gibson ES-350 with Prototype Seth Lover Pickups > Guitars : Electric Semi-Hollow Body | Gbase.com

Sam see this guitar and pickup and black lings hand made from celuloid - original cover black plastic with four hole for screw into body like P90, but no hole in baseplate - mystery!

A bowl of noodles says those bobbins are cut down P90 bobbins !

[Sam Lee Guy]

OK honolable Spence,
Sam think P90 bobbin cut by hand too! Plobably made on soapbar type base first then change to one with height screw on ears.

[jonson]

I remember Seth said once "nail scissors good for job"

[David Schwab]

A bowl of noodles says those bobbins are cut down P90 bobbins !

I agree! You can see where the one is cracked, and it has the center part around the screws.

Good observation.

[Possum]

....

Now wait a minute, those look like Spence made them :-) Just kidding. WOW, what an incredible find! That guitar should be in a museum, its a wonder Seymour doesn't own it Notice the lower B string slug. I wonder what kind of wire that is, doesn't really look like PE....

[LtKojak]

Now wait a minute, those look like Spence made them :-) Just kidding. WOW, what an incredible find! That guitar should be in a museum, its a wonder Seymour doesn't own it Notice the lower B string slug. I wonder what kind of wire that is, doesn't really look like PE....

I've noticed the wire too, it looks like... SPN?

Could it be possible????