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Thread: Silent single coil

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    Silent single coil

    Any one made this yet ?
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    I haven't done that particular circuit before, but I modded a humbucker today to have an air coil and it improves it's dynamics and clarity a little bit while still bucking hum really well (granted, this is a low impedance pickup wired in a balanced configuration). I think the low inductance of the air coil would offset the phase cancellation of a hum cancelling pickup quite a bit. I would imagine that circuit would go one step further than what I did would.

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    This is the BPSSC , Suhr sell this and also ilitch electronics , they invented it .

    It sold 300$ i bit much for me , i will try to make one to fit in my strat control and pickup enclosed without modification.

    I may also try dual coil revers wound for middle pup.

    There are unknown values of 2 resistor ...

    Idea Anyone ?

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    Hmm ...
    10K according the schematic ... (a bit offset to the resistor)

    Bye

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    Quote Originally Posted by mk1 View Post
    This is the BPSSC , Suhr sell this and also ilitch electronics , they invented it .

    It sold 300$ i bit much for me , i will try to make one to fit in my strat control and pickup enclosed without modification.

    I may also try dual coil revers wound for middle pup.

    There are unknown values of 2 resistor ...

    Idea Anyone ?

    I think you can omit those two resistors to start with. They limit the value of the parallel combination (pot and resistor) and should affect range and ease of adjustment a bit. You have the full range by omitting the two resistors.

    The basic idea is that the magnetic flux is field times area, and so you need a lot fewer turns to get the same hum voltage with a larger area. That is, the voltage is proportional to A times n, while the inductance is approximately to A times n squared. So you can see if you make a coil larger and decrease the number of turns to compensate for increased hum voltage, you get lower inductance. So you have something that affects the rest of the guitar circuit less.

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Also the large coil uses heavier gauge wire so it has less resistance.

    The sound clips of the Suhr version sound very good.

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    No such thing

    A single coil has one coil. Any "noiseless" pickup is going to have a dummy coil. There's no escaping it.

    You may like the sound of that (I don't) and it may fit in a single-coil slot, but it's not going to be a single coil and it won't sound like a single coil.

    To my ears, noiseless - toneless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tele-Cat View Post
    A single coil has one coil. Any "noiseless" pickup is going to have a dummy coil. There's no escaping it.
    Yep, and if the dummy coil has a low inductance and resistance, it does not affect the tone significantly.

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tele-Cat View Post
    A single coil has one coil. Any "noiseless" pickup is going to have a dummy coil. There's no escaping it.
    No, some have an active coil, such as stacked and sidewider configurations.

    You may like the sound of that (I don't) and it may fit in a single-coil slot, but it's not going to be a single coil and it won't sound like a single coil.

    To my ears, noiseless - toneless.
    Have you heard the Ilitch system? You can't hear any difference. There is no loss in high end, which is the thing people don't like about hum canceling single aperture pickups.

    Also the DiMarzio Virtual Pro and Kinman pickups sound exactly like single coils. So it can be done.

    Noise is not tone, but you don't want to lose the high end either.

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    I personally think the 50/60 Hz hum has been a part of the "music" for so long -ever since the beginning, why try to get rid of it now? If it bugs you, you just need to play louder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David King View Post
    I personally think the 50/60 Hz hum has been a part of the "music" for so long -ever since the beginning, why try to get rid of it now? If it bugs you, you just need to play louder.
    Just find magnetic north and don't stand too close to the amp (or a computer) and you're good to go!

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    ...

    Suhr didn't invent that system they licensed it from Ilitch. Its a good solution but I've heard from one guy who tried it that its not all its cracked up to be. Me, I LIKE NOISE, gimme a noisy, squealy old P90 and I'm in hog heaven! Noisy pickups have a full range of harmonics you lose in any kind of bucking system, even the Ilitch and even Kinmans. That coil in the Les Paul cavity looks like a major bitch to install.

    Hell, PAFs are the king of "nasal" tone, LUV that too! I had a customer once who told me he wanted a real open sounding set of buckers, so I made him one then he complained and said they were "nasal" sounding. So I made him another, same complaint. Turns out he loves Tuck & Pattys guitar tone, WTF, that guy doesn't even use a regular humbucker but a totally oddball pickup called a Hi-A I think it is. I looked up the patent and its nothing like a regular humbucker at all. Top that off with Tuck doesn't use a tone control at all, bypasses it completely. The nasal thing to me is in almost every classic pickup, strats etc. To me its kinda like the human voice, it has a real vocal quality to it that sings and sounds natural...

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    I tried a Suhr-equipped guitar at the Montreal Guitar Expo a couple of years ago, and was impressed. I made a point of holding the guitar up beside the power transformer side of the amp head with the volume up and listening closely. Was it dead quiet? No. Was it usefully quiet? Damn straight.

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    I have so say i used to believe a single coil was fine with the noise , but now i have some really old electric system here and its just crazy , plus i am stock with a practice amp , at really low volume there is more noise then anything else .

    This is the reason i will make a ssc system , i have a spool of 40 gauge i made a 6.5 inch diameter coil from it it is 250 ohm , i will test and post picture.

    I also will make a spectral analyst of both with and with out it .

    I will post all results .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vihar View Post
    Sloppy is Jimi Hendrix, the other guy who's praised highly along these parts.

    You seem to be nervous and full of anger, David. My opinion is my opinion, and I'm sticking with what I wrote.

    Ok, some music I played.
    And that was his point, there are a bunch of people, you been one of them who when they see a player of a certain level of technique they are instantly dismissed as not been musicians, The fact you said Guthrie is only 1% musician shows you dont know 1, who he is, 2 dont know what he can do, and 3, know what other musicians feel about him and his creative talent.

    David isn't angry or nervous, its just he can smell shit when its been spread. May i ask what percentage guitarist/musician you rate yourself. if you rate yourself higher than Guthrie i know your talking shit.

    Here's a backing track you may like to download Vihar, sort of in the same vane as some of those you posted, easy listening.

    Yea, it's that 1% musician again, not bad for a improvisation, but I'm sure you'll come up with a more musical version if you choose to download it.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71izserFcek"]YouTube- GUTHRIE GOVAN - ORANGE JAM - ROTOSOUND PROMO[/ame]

    Just to keep things on topic the pickups are Suhr's V60 LP's "Low Peak". with the SSC built in the guitar like the Tele.

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    Last edited by greenfingers; 11-07-2009 at 10:49 PM.

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    I just got a idea , in most electronic hardware the use a ferrite toroid to eliminate the 60 cycle hum , why wouldn't it do the same with guitar pickups ?

    Anyone tried ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mk1 View Post
    I just got a idea , in most electronic hardware the use a ferrite toroid to eliminate the 60 cycle hum , why wouldn't it do the same with guitar pickups ?

    Anyone tried ?
    Didn't Burns do something like that? What about Lace? I would imagine it would work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mk1 View Post
    I just got a idea , in most electronic hardware the use a ferrite toroid to eliminate the 60 cycle hum , why wouldn't it do the same with guitar pickups ?

    Anyone tried ?
    Because it would not pickup up the same amount of hum out of phase and cancel it.

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    Hi,

    Thought I'd revisit the split-coiled, RWRP version of the SC (Newman?) and see for myself. Attached is a picture of my build.

    The windings are made with #42 SPN with a combined DCR=6K, L=2H, Fr=10KHz. This one was made with a StewMac kit cut in half and each section wound separately, then later re-assembled. Takes me about the best of an evening to fabricate one pickup as its somewhat labor-intensive and also needs working under magnification.

    Getting the magnets charged to correct levels was tricky, especially the G/D pair, but I sorted that out eventually.

    Sure, there is a some artifacts when doing heavy bends over the G/D poles, but thats not my playing style and is a non issue for me. These pickups sound great like my vintage sets and are absolutely quiet --- I can sit in front of my computer CRT with the guitar 12" away and, only when turned in a specific orientation to induce an overload of radiation, will one hear a tiny bit of buzz. In that position my regular SC pickups are unbearable.

    Trust this is of interest.

    Regards.

    JB.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Old Tele man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbforrer View Post
    ...how does it sound? Strictly SC, HB or something "in between"?

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    ...and the Devil said: "...yes, but it's a DRY heat!"

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    Hi,

    To my ears sounds much like my Fender CS Fat 50's. Typical Strat nasal sound, no harsh trebles, very nice bright low end. Very little in there that reminds one of a humbucker sound, its a SC sound, no question in my mind.

    I have made a full set of these for my Strat; the middle one having opposite winds and polarities than used in the neck and bridge, so in switch position 2 & 4, one get even more noise reduction. Its quite impressive to hear it in action.

    I'll shortly post A/B sound clips to compare it with a Fender CS pickup. You'll be able to make your own judgement regarding tone and hum.


    JB.

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbforrer View Post
    Very little in there that reminds one of a humbucker sound, its a SC sound, no question in my mind.
    Because it is a single coil as far as what's sensing the strings.

    Regular humbuckers sound the way they do because there are two coils sensing each string. That reinforces the lows and mids and cancels some highs.

    On a split coil pickup like this, none of the strings are sensed by more than one coil.

    There are a lot of bass pickups made like this. Here's a Nordstrand Jazz Bass pickup.
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    ...

    Its not a new idea, Curtis Novak makes the same design. Looking at his website it looks like he doesn't sell them anymore, probably weren't a big hit with customers.

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    Hi,

    Here's my follow-up attempt on a quiet SC pickup. Split coils similar to my previous posting (i.e., like the Novak design), but this time using Mike Sulzer's composite ferrite magnet-pole idea. Note the coils are slightly offset to increase the distance between the G/D poles. The coils are RWRP, wound to usual Strat specs --- self-resonance is in the 9-12KHz region.

    I have made a calibrated set am pleasantly surprised by how good they sound --- similar to Alnico 2 or 3, a little softer on the highs. For some reason. these do not seem to have that soft spot between the G/D like my the Alnico's version has. Not quite sure why? Needless to say that they are dead quiet.

    Cheers.

    JB.
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    Senior Member Old Tele man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbforrer View Post
    Split coils similar to my previous posting (i.e., like the Novak design), but this time using Mike Sulzer's composite ferrite magnet-pole idea.
    ...is that similar to the "Z-coils" that L&G guitars use?

    ...a "quiet" single coil is the proverbial "holy grail" of twangsville.

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    No such thing as a quiet single coil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tele-Cat View Post
    No such thing as a quiet single coil.
    Scott Henderson and BB Preamp & RC Booster

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sock Puppet View Post
    I'm assuming it's this patent:

    Compact hum-canceling musical ... - Google Patent Search

    Unless they have a new one for this pickup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Schwab View Post
    I'm assuming it's this patent:

    Compact hum-canceling musical ... - Google Patent Search

    Unless they have a new one for this pickup.
    David, you're fast. Take a holiday and slow down a bit

    That might be the one mind, I don't know but I'd have thought Mr.Duncan would have had the pickups bashed out well before now (it's dated Jan. 2007).

    Thanks,

    Rob.

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sock Puppet View Post
    David, you're fast. Take a holiday and slow down a bit

    That might be the one mind, I don't know but I'd have thought Mr.Duncan would have had the pickups bashed out well before now (it's dated Jan. 2007).

    Thanks,

    Rob.
    I have a folder full of patents, so I already knew which one it was. What I need is to get away from the computer and get some work done!

    Seymour only has one pickup patent for the older stacks. All the rest are by Kevin Beller. That must be the pickup, because I can't find any other patents or applications listed to Beller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Schwab View Post
    I have a folder full of patents, so I already knew which one it was. What I need is to get away from the computer and get some work done!
    Snap!

    I'm bouncing all emails from my primary account until after the new year as they have a tendency to steal my time. I'm much happier now - it's as good as an electric fence.

    Too many Christmases spoilt with other people's problems.

    I don't answer the phone unless it's my daughter.

    Buggerem.

    The primary account(if you want a little laugh) is krait (insert at) tiscali.co.uk.

    As I say, buggerem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbforrer View Post
    Hi,

    . these do not seem to have that soft spot between the G/D like my the Alnico's version has. Not quite sure why? Needless to say that they are dead quiet.

    Cheers.

    JB.
    The offset certainly helps. If you are using a high permeability ceramic, it might help to confine the field to the area over the pole piece, resulting in less reduction in the field over the G and D poles.

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    In this video there is a bpssc on the guitar he will show with and with out it .

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX1ubW6Rw-4"]YouTube- Rice Custom Guitar #131[/ame]

    I did not have time to complete my homemade version yet , but it's coming ...

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    ...

    Fralin makes a blade pickup with the offset idea if I remember right, there are two blades but they are at different horizontal levels.

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